Skashion said:Since the start of last season, in all comps:
11 goals in 407 minutes off the bench at an incredible rate of a goal every 37 minutes.
13 goals in 2157 minutes from starting at a rate of a goal every 165 minutes.
165/37 = 4.48 times more effective coming off the bench.
Now, a bit of a disparity would be expected because the whole point of substitutions is fresh players running at tired legs but 4.48 is staggering.
Shaelumstash said:Skashion said:Since the start of last season, in all comps:
11 goals in 407 minutes off the bench at an incredible rate of a goal every 37 minutes.
13 goals in 2157 minutes from starting at a rate of a goal every 165 minutes.
165/37 = 4.48 times more effective coming off the bench.
Now, a bit of a disparity would be expected because the whole point of substitutions is fresh players running at tired legs but 4.48 is staggering.
Fantastic post. I guess the stats actually do back up what I've been saying.
greasedupdeafguy said:Agree with everything you said apart from the Falcao bit, imo he is the best striker in the world and the best finisher something we deeply lack.Shaelumstash said:Armaan said:First off you probably think I'm just a bosnian Dzeko fan, I'm not. I've been a blue for 20 years, I'm just sick of the abuse he gets and hope well for him. He's a totally different playe to Tevez and Dzeko, just because they'll play in strike doesn't mean they have the same role in the team. I'm a season ticket holder too and for the past two years I've just been hearing an annoying cow behind me say "fucking Dzeko is so shit why do we even have him" and it's annoyed me so much now coz he's a decent nice guy as well.
He is a decent guy, he's a decent player and I want him to do well at City. My opinion of him is that he's a square peg in a round hole for the way we play.
Look at Ibrahimovic at Barca, they spent 60m on him, he's clearly an outstanding player, but he was the wrong type of player for them and it didn't work. He's gone to another team, done great, and Barca have done great without him.
For the last two years, for me, City are at their very best when they play a quick, neat, incisive, intricate passing game. Silva and Nasri finding little holes and poking through clever through balls for the front players.
This requires fantastic movement and little darting runs from the front men. Naturally, players with good movement, and or explosive pace are better for that style of play. Tevez, Kun and Bolotelli are more suited to that style than Dzeko.
The reason I think Dzeko is better off the bench is two fold.
1. When he comes on late, often we are desperately chasing a goal and have to be a bit more direct. He's great for this. Also a lot of the time the reason we haven't scored is because teams are sat so deep that there is no room in behind for our quick front men. So, bringing on Dzeko, and often Kolarov to supply the crosses, allows us to get bodies in the box and attack from wide when the opposition are sat on their 6 yard line. Again, Dzeko is perfect for this because he's so good in the air.
2. Dzeko always seems to play with more urgency from off the bench. I think he's an instinctive player, he is best when he has no time to think. When he comes off the bench he chases every ball, his touch looks good, he shoots on sight, often to great effect. When he starts, often his touch looks poor, he drifts in to channels, doesn't chase the ball down, it's like he's got too much time to think about things and when things go wrong it gets to him and he makes more mistakes.
I don't blame him for us losing games, it's a team game. But in my opinion, in the main, the team is more suited to having a different type of player up front. He is a brilliant alternative as a plan B though. That's why I'd keep him over Falcao.
Falcao might be a better player, but he's similar to what we've already got. Bringing him on would not be a plan B, it would be plan A with longer hair. Dzeko is the best plan B / Supersub out there, I just don't think he, or we, are as good when he starts.
Skashion said:Since the start of last season, in all comps:
11 goals in 407 minutes off the bench at an incredible rate of a goal every 37 minutes.
13 goals in 2157 minutes from starting at a rate of a goal every 165 minutes.
165/37 = 4.48 times more effective coming off the bench.
Now, a bit of a disparity would be expected because the whole point of substitutions is fresh players running at tired legs but 4.48 is staggering.
noise said:I think we may be missing a few things here. When Dzeko is subbed in, we are often behind on goals. He deals really well in this situation, he also seems to get more service, more crosses and passes, as if everyone is reminded hey Dzeko is in, "pass him the ball!" all of a sudden.Skashion said:Since the start of last season, in all comps:
11 goals in 407 minutes off the bench at an incredible rate of a goal every 37 minutes.
13 goals in 2157 minutes from starting at a rate of a goal every 165 minutes.
165/37 = 4.48 times more effective coming off the bench.
Now, a bit of a disparity would be expected because the whole point of substitutions is fresh players running at tired legs but 4.48 is staggering.
The stat doesn't explain, why he was the best striker in Bundesliga, and currently top scorer in the WC qualifiers in Europe, where he started all the games.
Also the option can't be to keep Dzeko (or any other striker for that matter) as a sub all the time. Players need to be rotated to rest, or in case of injuries, and also to maintain form. Can't expect a player to just play 10 minutes every other game when the team is loosing and keep him in form. Part of the reason Dzeko is in form currently is exactly because of the international break, and playing full matches with Bosnia and scoring 5 goals in those. There is a long stretch now, sans international breaks, so he should get some starts in from his club to keep him in form. So when he's needed again he can be in form enough to be effective as a plan B.
Also let's not forget, that even against Ajax he was our most threatening striker.
So it would be imperative for the team to figure out why such a large disparity between his starting vs subbed in play goal efficiency, because obviously there in lies unlocked potential.
I do get a feeling that Mancini is on to it though.
Part of me thinks this is why he got Maicon, to widen the play which could create more synergy with Dzeko.
Yeah, you may be right. It's a shame really, was hoping for Dzeko to stay at Man City.Shaelumstash said:I know it's not what you want to hear, but I don't think Mancini sees Dzeko as a regular starter in the big games for us. He's a squad / rotation player / Supersub.
Shaelumstash said:noise said:I think we may be missing a few things here. When Dzeko is subbed in, we are often behind on goals. He deals really well in this situation, he also seems to get more service, more crosses and passes, as if everyone is reminded hey Dzeko is in, "pass him the ball!" all of a sudden.Skashion said:Since the start of last season, in all comps:
11 goals in 407 minutes off the bench at an incredible rate of a goal every 37 minutes.
13 goals in 2157 minutes from starting at a rate of a goal every 165 minutes.
165/37 = 4.48 times more effective coming off the bench.
Now, a bit of a disparity would be expected because the whole point of substitutions is fresh players running at tired legs but 4.48 is staggering.
The stat doesn't explain, why he was the best striker in Bundesliga, and currently top scorer in the WC qualifiers in Europe, where he started all the games.
Also the option can't be to keep Dzeko (or any other striker for that matter) as a sub all the time. Players need to be rotated to rest, or in case of injuries, and also to maintain form. Can't expect a player to just play 10 minutes every other game when the team is loosing and keep him in form. Part of the reason Dzeko is in form currently is exactly because of the international break, and playing full matches with Bosnia and scoring 5 goals in those. There is a long stretch now, sans international breaks, so he should get some starts in from his club to keep him in form. So when he's needed again he can be in form enough to be effective as a plan B.
Also let's not forget, that even against Ajax he was our most threatening striker.
So it would be imperative for the team to figure out why such a large disparity between his starting vs subbed in play goal efficiency, because obviously there in lies unlocked potential.
I do get a feeling that Mancini is on to it though.
Part of me thinks this is why he got Maicon, to widen the play which could create more synergy with Dzeko.
I know it's not what you want to hear, but I don't think Mancini sees Dzeko as a regular starter in the big games for us. He's a squad / rotation player / Supersub.
adorado30 said:Shaelumstash said:noise said:I think we may be missing a few things here. When Dzeko is subbed in, we are often behind on goals. He deals really well in this situation, he also seems to get more service, more crosses and passes, as if everyone is reminded hey Dzeko is in, "pass him the ball!" all of a sudden.
The stat doesn't explain, why he was the best striker in Bundesliga, and currently top scorer in the WC qualifiers in Europe, where he started all the games.
Also the option can't be to keep Dzeko (or any other striker for that matter) as a sub all the time. Players need to be rotated to rest, or in case of injuries, and also to maintain form. Can't expect a player to just play 10 minutes every other game when the team is loosing and keep him in form. Part of the reason Dzeko is in form currently is exactly because of the international break, and playing full matches with Bosnia and scoring 5 goals in those. There is a long stretch now, sans international breaks, so he should get some starts in from his club to keep him in form. So when he's needed again he can be in form enough to be effective as a plan B.
Also let's not forget, that even against Ajax he was our most threatening striker.
So it would be imperative for the team to figure out why such a large disparity between his starting vs subbed in play goal efficiency, because obviously there in lies unlocked potential.
I do get a feeling that Mancini is on to it though.
Part of me thinks this is why he got Maicon, to widen the play which could create more synergy with Dzeko.
I know it's not what you want to hear, but I don't think Mancini sees Dzeko as a regular starter in the big games for us. He's a squad / rotation player / Supersub.
He must be then most expensive rotation/supersub player in the world.
In all comps, I don't know. In the league, over their City career, both had a goal every 127 minutes last time I worked it out but Balotelli improved on that last season with a goal every 100 minutes. I might work out all our strikers' goals from starts later today if I can be arsed. I'm very confident their starting records will be better than Dzeko's, as I'm very confident Dzeko's one goal every 37 minutes will be the best because it's a fantastic record.noise said:Goal every 165 is still better than Tevez's and Balotelli's average, in the same time period I believe.
I think we may be missing a few things here. When Dzeko is subbed in, we are often behind on goals. He deals really well in this situation, he also seems to get more service, more crosses and passes, as if everyone is reminded hey Dzeko is in, "pass him the ball!" all of a sudden.
The stat doesn't explain, why he was the best striker in Bundesliga, and currently top scorer in the WC qualifiers in Europe, where he started all the games.
Also the option can't be to keep Dzeko (or any other striker for that matter) as a sub all the time. Players need to be rotated to rest, or in case of injuries, and also to maintain form. Can't expect a player to just play 10 minutes every other game when the team is loosing and keep him in form. Part of the reason Dzeko is in form currently is exactly because of the international break, and playing full matches with Bosnia and scoring 5 goals in those. There is a long stretch now, sans international breaks, so he should get some starts in from his club to keep him in form. So when he's needed again he can be in form enough to be effective as a plan B.
Also let's not forget, that even against Ajax he was our most threatening striker.
So it would be imperative for the team to figure out why such a large disparity between his starting vs subbed in play goal efficiency, because obviously there in lies unlocked potential.
I do get a feeling that Mancini is on to it though.
Part of me thinks this is why he got Maicon, to widen the play which could create more synergy with Dzeko.