Electric cars

[dickie davies]

Had our first bill for charging up at home £20! We charge it up once a week as we only use it round town, school runs etc. so one month £20 compared to £90 for our diesel previously.

Swings and roundabouts though isn't it!
How much did you have to invest in the electric car to save the £800 a year?

 

[antste]

Looking at electric yesterday and it says 30 minutes (or so) yo 80% charge
Why 80%, why not all the way to 100?

80% is the recommended amount t to charge to to prolong battery life. Works for me so don't see the need to go above. Tried to charge to 100% once. The last 20% is lone a trickle charge. Takes forever. Stopped it at 84% im happy with 80% been to stevenage and the to Cambridge this week. 80% charge when I left. Charged once when I was down there. - took 30 mins. Made it home with 35% remaining.

 

[Blue Maverick]

Swings and roundabouts though isn't it!
How much did you have to invest in the electric car to save the £800 a year?

Well as I needed a new car £10k, car loan £190 over 5 years, knock off the cost of diesel add the £20 to charge so £120 a month for a 4 year old car, not bad considering my 13 year old diesel was costing nearly £750 a year in repairs lately plus fuel.

 

[Blue Maverick]

80% is the recommended amount t to charge to to prolong battery life. Works for me so don't see the need to go above. Tried to charge to 100% once. The last 20% is lone a trickle charge. Takes forever. Stopped it at 84% im happy with 80% been to stevenage and the to Cambridge this week. 80% charge when I left. Charged once when I was down there. - took 30 mins. Made it home with 35% remaining.

80% for charging away from home but always go to 100% at home, although that first 20% drops fast.

 

[bluetonium]

Just ordered my first EV, due to arrive early next year. Any current recommendations for home ev charger installation deals? Seems to all be over a grand nowadays?

 

[bluegray]

The one thing your not told when buying an EV charger for your home is there needs to be 100w coming into your home from the main supply. Also if your on a looped system with your next door neighbour. I had my charger fitted in March but need the main supply cable to be upgraded. I'm on a looped system too so when they come in 2 weeks ( yes it has taken 6 months to get a start date) they will have to dig up the road across to my house, also my neighbours path as its easier to do than going through my drive. I was told the energy company would restrict my charge to 3.5kw but I've been charging at 7.5kw. I recon I could of easily managed on 3.5kw as long as I charged most nights.

 

[bluetonium]

The one thing your not told when buying an EV charger for your home is there needs to be 100w coming into your home from the main supply. Also if your on a looped system with your next door neighbour. I had my charger fitted in March but need the main supply cable to be upgraded. I'm on a looped system too so when they come in 2 weeks ( yes it has taken 6 months to get a start date) they will have to dig up the road across to my house, also my neighbours path as its easier to do than going through my drive. I was told the energy company would restrict my charge to 3.5kw but I've been charging at 7.5kw. I recon I could of easily managed on 3.5kw as long as I charged most nights.

Is that the one where you can check your main board for 100 amp supply to confirm? I checked and we have it, apparently you need to upgrade to a three phase supply the get 22kw and that can be thousands of pounds! Can see it becoming an issue on the future with bigger capacity batteries and would help to normalise EVs but not at the prices needed now.

Am sure the cost of installation of a home ev charger has gone up just on the few months I've been looking. I had in my mind to put away £500-750 for it but even the 'special offers' now are in the £1k region. Not particularly great as I need to redo my sums now!

 

[denislawsbackheel]

The one thing you’re not told when buying an EV charger for your home is there needs to be 100w coming into your home from the main supply. Also if your on a looped system with your next door neighbour. I had my charger fitted in March but need the main supply cable to be upgraded. I'm on a looped system too so when they come in 2 weeks ( yes it has taken 6 months to get a start date) they will have to dig up the road across to my house, also my neighbours path as its easier to do than going through my drive. I was told the energy company would restrict my charge to 3.5kw but I've been charging at 7.5kw. I recon I could have easily managed on 3.5kw as long as I charged most nights.

Lucky boy.
My brother in laws neighbour planned to do this across his drive.
He told them to fuck right off and they did.
You cannot be forced to give access across your property without a court order.

 

[remember arthur mann]

Is that the one where you can check your main board for 100 amp supply to confirm? I checked and we have it, apparently you need to upgrade to a three phase supply the get 22kw and that can be thousands of pounds! Can see it becoming an issue on the future with bigger capacity batteries and would help to normalise EVs but not at the prices needed now.

Am sure the cost of installation of a home ev charger has gone up just on the few months I've been looking. I had in my mind to put away £500-750 for it but even the 'special offers' now are in the £1k region. Not particularly great as I need to redo my sums now!

Buy a new home. It'll be cheaper.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

80% for charging away from home but always go to 100% at home, although that first 20% drops fast.

That’s only for an LFP battery, which doesn’t mind repeated 100% charges.

Lithium batteries don’t like the repeated 100% charge. My Tesla says 20-60% is the sweet spot, but 80% charge is recommended for daily use…with 100% reserved for the very few times you’re taking a road trip and need the range.

As may have been said already, SuperChargers are placed so you don’t have to charge to 100% even on a road trip, because not only is it bad for the long term health of the battery, but it takes an age to squeeze that last 20% into it. The idea is perhaps one or two more frequent stops that take much less time and protect the long term health of the battery.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

Just ordered my first EV, due to arrive early next year. Any current recommendations for home ev charger installation deals? Seems to all be over a grand nowadays?

How much do you plan to drive it each day?

I have a Tesla and plug into a REGULAR garage outlet, same juice as my toaster!

My mains charge is about 5 miles of range per hour, so overnight I’m getting 60-70 miles.

At the other house I have a Level 2 charger that gets about 30-35 miles of range per hour, so it can fill up overnight from zero!

We rarely use or need a SuperCharger, but the occasional use is far cheaper than the cost to upgrade our home to 200A and build a Level 2 charger into the garage.

We also have a Plug in hybrid that also charges off the house mains from a regular outlet in the garage! It only has a 40 mile EV range, whereas the Tesla has 330 miles.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

If they're bragging about a super fast charge of 20/25 minutes to 80%, then they should also be giving a range for 80%
They can't have it both ways

Maybe you could do the maths???

 

[bluetonium]

How much do you plan to drive it each day?

I have a Tesla and plug into a REGULAR garage outlet, same juice as my toaster!

My mains charge is about 5 miles of range per hour, so overnight I’m getting 60-70 miles.

At the other house I have a Level 2 charger that gets about 30-35 miles of range per hour, so it can fill up overnight from zero!

We rarely use or need a SuperCharger, but the occasional use is far cheaper than the cost to upgrade our home to 200A and build a Level 2 charger into the garage.

We also have a Plug in hybrid that also charges off the house mains from a regular outlet in the garage! It only has a 40 mile EV range, whereas the Tesla has 330 miles.

Day to day probably no more than 50-100 miles half the week, zero to twenty on other days, but on occasion I can do 400-500 miles in a day for work probably a few times a year. So I think the charging point is probably necessary, although I have considered a smart plug and the 3 pin approach too but believe it would take something like 20-35 hours to fully charge! I've also had several occasions in the past year where I've been called back from Berkshire or somewhere for emergencies with the kids, parents and mother in law, so I much prefer having the miles in the car ready to go, as much as possible, as default.

I had a passed down Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV a few years back which charged from a 3 pin but it was pointless and only served to push be back to non-ev. Six hour charge for 24 miles of range, and they halved the size of the fuel tank to shove the battery in, but this is my first time going fully electric. Luckily the main board is in our garage wall just a few feet from the driveway, so should be an easy install if I can swallow the cost.

 

[fulabeer]

If they're bragging about a super fast charge of 20/25 minutes to 80%, then they should also be giving a range for 80%
They can't have it both ways

You are spot on. It's marketing spin. I don't like it. People need to know the truth so they can plan if an EV suits them.
EV range and charging always quote "best case", but the again so does petrol/diesel.

In the case for EV, it is quicker to charge to 80% then move on. The time spent waiting for 100% is best served being on the move and then stopping again if need be. If you are at home charging (overnight), then it doesn't really matter. So they tend to quote 10-80% or 20-80%, as that is what most people do on the move.

The charging thing is a curve. The lower the battery level, the quicker it can take the charge. Slowing off as the battery fills. Better battery cooling and management improves things. Also the battery chemistry has an affect. As does the actual rapid charger.

The advances of the last five years has been astonishing. There are so many new battery types coming out, with ever increasing battery densities. Higher voltage batteries also improves things.
If they eventually get 10-80% in ten minutes with a range of 500 miles (600 miles at 100%), then charging to 100% doesn't really matter as such. Even now my 300 mile range is 5 hours at an average 60 mph non-stop.

We have another five years before "new" ICE is banned, and ten before "new" hybrids. I would imagine by then, most problems will be ironed out.

 

[denislawsbackheel]

ICE aren’t being banned.
Only new ones.

 

[crooky]

You are spot on. It's marketing spin. I don't like it. People need to know the truth so they can plan if an EV suits them.
EV range and charging always quote "best case", but the again so does petrol/diesel.

In the case for EV, it is quicker to charge to 80% then move on. The time spent waiting for 100% is best served being on the move and then stopping again if need be. If you are at home charging (overnight), then it doesn't really matter. So they tend to quote 10-80% or 20-80%, as that is what most people do on the move.

The charging thing is a curve. The lower the battery level, the quicker it can take the charge. Slowing off as the battery fills. Better battery cooling and management improves things. Also the battery chemistry has an affect. As does the actual rapid charger.

The advances of the last five years has been astonishing. There are so many new battery types coming out, with ever increasing battery densities. Higher voltage batteries also improves things.
If they eventually get 10-80% in ten minutes with a range of 500 miles (600 miles at 100%), then charging to 100% doesn't really matter as such. Even now my 300 mile range is 5 hours at an average 60 mph non-stop.

We have another five years before ICE is banned, and ten before hybrids. I would imagine by then, most problems will be ironed out.

Just had to double check that as it was previously 2035 for petrol cars. But now the new government has decided to bring it forward 5 years... Seems rather early.

I can see the streets of the UK being a mix of Chinese EVs and Cuba-esque 20-50 year old petrol cars in 25 years time.

 

[fulabeer]

Swings and roundabouts though isn't it!
How much did you have to invest in the electric car to save the £800 a year?

Bad press for used EV's actually meant our EV cost less than the equivalent ICE car. Ours was listed at £38k. We bought an ex demonstrator with less than 6k miles and only five months old for £25k.
Apart from the cheap overnight EV tariff, the whole house bills lowered as we now do timed washing/dishwasher loads to take advantage. So the household electric bills also lowered. Most Sundays we are now getting free electric from 8am-4pm. (everything is on including the car charger)
Free road tax last/this year also helped. (£190 next year)
Servicing is also cheap at £120 a year. I say service, it was really a safety inspection and a cabin filter.
Car insurance actually went down.
Charging at home feels like free motoring. £5 to fill up. Thrash it all day and fill it up overnight again!

The thing is, i would pay a premium to own this car. The only shame is that used bargains are drying up.

 

[fulabeer]

ICE aren’t being banned.
Only new ones.

Cheers. I've edited in case some misunderstand etc.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

Day to day probably no more than 50-100 miles half the week, zero to twenty on other days, but on occasion I can do 400-500 miles in a day for work probably a few times a year. So I think the charging point is probably necessary, although I have considered a smart plug and the 3 pin approach too but believe it would take something like 20-35 hours to fully charge! I've also had several occasions in the past year where I've been called back from Berkshire or somewhere for emergencies with the kids, parents and mother in law, so I much prefer having the miles in the car ready to go, as much as possible, as default.

I had a passed down Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV a few years back which charged from a 3 pin but it was pointless and only served to push be back to non-ev. Six hour charge for 24 miles of range, and they halved the size of the fuel tank to shove the battery in, but this is my first time going fully electric. Luckily the main board is in our garage wall just a few feet from the driveway, so should be an easy install if I can swallow the cost.

Personally, I wouldn’t create infrastructure for the occasional need, but use the charging network as needed, because no car is getting you 400-500 miles of range.

Anything under 100 miles is PERFECT for the 20-80% charge, but it will eventually fall to your personal choice and your level of range anxiety. I regularly get to under 20% in the Tesla, but just top up to where I need it at a SuperCharger, before going home to plug in to get me to where I want to be for the next day.

Knowing I can put 60 miles in it from 8pm to 8am covers 80% of our daily driving, because (as I mentioned) we can get down to 20% if we have multiple long drive days. But 20% (60miles) plus the 60 miles we put in overnight, covers almost every trip we ever take. In addition, we are fortunate enough to have two cars, with the other being a plug-in hybrid, so if we want to leave it on the charger for a longer period (all day!) we have that capability. Others may not.

In the end, as I said, it’ll come down to your use and comfort with range anxiety. You’ll never regret having an L2 charger in your garage, except when you think about the readies it cost to put it there, but if that gives you peace of mind every time you jump in it, then it’s worth it.

Good luck and nice one on the new purchase!

 

[ChicagoBlue]

In the case for EV, it is quicker to charge to 80% then move on. The time spent waiting for 100% is best served being on the move and then stopping again if need be. If you are at home charging (overnight), then it doesn't really matter. So they tend to quote 10-80% or 20-80%, as that is what most people do on the move.

Excellent point that potential EV owners need to understand. 100% charging is only for the start of a long trip, and I’m not even sure most Europeans understand the use of the word “long” in that sentence, as I think it’s an American thing!

With 300+ miles on a 100% charge, you need to be driving about 250 miles without a planned stop to even encroach on the last 20%, or be looking for a charger nearby if you only charged to 80% overnight. I’d venture there aren’t that many people using g a car that way on a regular basis.

The other thing is…an EV is not meant to replace EVERY TYPE OF VEHICLE!

If you’re a rep shooting all over the country every day, it seems clear to me a diesel hybrid is your best bet.

Out by me, there are a ton of pick ups and trucks. At best, you’re hoping they’re turbo diesel or hybrid, because an EV is not going to cut it for them…with today’s technology!

However, for the city/suburb dweller driving 30mins to an hour to work and back each day, putting about 40-50 miles (each way, even) on your vehicle, an EV is a no-brainer! The further you stretch those numbers, the more you have to think about it, until you get to a daily usage where it either makes no sense or you are fine with building in some charging time.

It really is that simple.