Elon Musk

Thaksinssoldier said:
you said “no platform is stifling anything” and twitters algorithms are 100% stifling open discussion.
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I see, so if I don’t like the algorithms, am I forced to forever use the platform until death? Does this mean I am never free to speak my mind again?

Twitter’s algorithms aren’t stifling free speech inherently. They’re editing content on THEIR platform. Like literally every broadcast and media platform ever invented in the history of humans. It’s definitional.

Don’t like it? Then don’t use it.
 
Fode N The Hole said:
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Ha.

As an English major who specialized in 19th century British fiction and went to Catholic schools for 13 years (including college), the line about “more morality in George Eliot than in all the gospels combined” was particularly well-crafted, I thought.

I read Rand when I was a teenager (Fountainhead and AS) and thought her drive was pretty transparent and unsubtle. The approach of utilizing self-determinism/objectivism to guide purpose is a tactical one but to most normal humans it’s pretty clearly circumstantial and to be used sparingly, not a global philosophy with which to approach the world, which is what she tried to instill. It’s a point of view, I guess. Weird that she liked Aquinas who I think would have hated her.
 
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FogBlueInSanFran said:
Ha.

As an English major who specialized in 19th century British fiction and went to Catholic schools for 13 years (including college), the line about “more morality in George Eliot than in all the gospels combined” was particularly well-crafted, I thought.
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To be honest it’s typical of the hyperbole that spewed out of that dishonest man’s pissed up mouth.
 
Thaksinssoldier said:
Does he moan about paying tax, or does he moan about government ineptitude at using taxes?

Different things.

Go read some Ayn Rand and gain an understanding as to why Musk and most billionaires dislike taxation.

My guess is you also dislike Bezos for similar reasons.
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Personally think Ayn Rand was one mixed up bag of mince and you can drive a horse and coach through many of her arguments. She was destined to be a bit of footnote until she was co-opted by some deeply unsavoury people as some sort of pseudo intellectual justification for their unsavoury behaviours. Rich people per se I have no problem with, rich people who quote Ayn Rand can get in the bin as far as I'm concerned.
 
FogBlueInSanFran said:
1957 called — it wants its literature back.
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FogBlueInSanFran said:
I see, so if I don’t like the algorithms, am I forced to forever use the platform until death? Does this mean I am never free to speak my mind again?

Twitter’s algorithms aren’t stifling free speech inherently. They’re editing content on THEIR platform. Like literally every broadcast and media platform ever invented in the history of humans. It’s definitional.

Don’t like it? Then don’t use it.
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but that’s not the point is it. You said none did so, twitter clearly does.

like him or not he’s right in that people leaving the platform is only going to fragment free speech further.

twitter may be a company but it was happy to build itself as a town hall until it wasn’t. Like it or not twitter simply is.

I’m very conflicted on him buying it tbh. The concept needs rescuing and everything he has said on the matter is largely right. However the idea of one man stepping in to determine what free speech is also should be a red flag.

If he buys it and walks away from it as a financial concern then he’ll be doing a service to society, but he hasn’t done so on any metric so far.
 
threespires said:
Personally think Ayn Rand was one mixed up bag of mince and you can drive a horse and coach through many of her arguments. She was destined to be a bit of footnote until she was co-opted by some deeply unsavoury people as some sort of pseudo intellectual justification for their unsavoury behaviours. Rich people per se I have no problem with, rich people who quote Ayn Rand can get in the bin as far as I'm concerned.
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like it or not however we live in a world hugely influenced by Rand. So many billionaires publicly say they were influenced by her writings.

We’re seeing it built out before our very eyes.
 
Thaksinssoldier said:
but that’s not the point is it. You said none did so, twitter clearly does.

like him or not he’s right in that people leaving the platform is only going to fragment free speech further.

twitter may be a company but it was happy to build itself as a town hall until it wasn’t. Like it or not twitter simply is.

I’m very conflicted on him buying it tbh. The concept needs rescuing and everything he has said on the matter is largely right. However the idea of one man stepping in to determine what free speech is also should be a red flag.

If he buys it and walks away from it as a financial concern then he’ll be doing a service to society, but he hasn’t done so on any metric so far.
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Well it was MY point so maybe I didn’t express it well. Semantics aside, he’s not right — Twitter like all media will probably eventually be subsumed by another technology someday and anyone who thought it was ever a town hall is just pining for their own dashed hopes. As much as one wants to define a captive platform as the new free marketplace of ideas is isn’t, can’t be and won’t ever be a replacement. If Twitter really could somehow become the monopolistic provider of info and ideas and thus must of needs exist without regulation (like the air), it should be nationalized — an idea your buddy Ms. Rand would probably have disliked :)
 
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Thaksinssoldier said:
like it or not however we live in a world hugely influenced by Rand. So many billionaires publicly say they were influenced by her writings.

We’re seeing it built out before our very eyes.
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I think my point is many billionaires who claim to have been influenced by Rand seem to have not been that influenced by her when, for example, taking advantage of various forms of statism or seeking to socialise their risk.

You are right, something is being built out before our eyes but I don't think it's anything coherent based on Rands world view. She's simply a fig leaf to try and make it all sound less grubby than it actually is.
 
Thaksinssoldier said:
Does he moan about paying tax, or does he moan about government ineptitude at using taxes?

Different things.

Go read some Ayn Rand and gain an understanding as to why Musk and most billionaires dislike taxation.

My guess is you also dislike Bezos for similar reasons.
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He pays an effective 2% tax rate. He dislikes tax as he wants to keep all his income. Also his companies have received tens of billions in tax breaks.
 
Elon Musk gives off a very creepy and very unpleasant vibe, there is something disturbing and wrong about him, similar to way Jimmy Saville made people uncomfortable without them knowing why. Makes my skin crawl and makes me feel a bit grubby listening to him, in the same way I do when I hear anything Donald Trump speak
 
threespires said:
I think my point is many billionaires who claim to have been influenced by Rand seem to have not been that influenced by her when, for example, taking advantage of various forms of statism or seeking to socialise their risk.

You are right, something is being built out before our eyes but I don't think it's anything coherent based on Rands world view. She's simply a fig leaf to try and make it all sound less grubby than it actually is.
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I think I spend a reasonable amount of time reading what billionaires say (at least about their businesses) and maybe I missed it but I can’t recall many if any quoting Rand as their guiding force. Maybe I’m reading the wrong billionaires!
 
Skip Donoghue said:
I have no care either way for Musk to be honest, he's done well for himself and I respect that no matter how anyone's dresses it up, he stands for free speech which I also agree with

But It was the indoctrination part of your reply that pricked my attention
I find more and more that anyone who is left leaning (which I'm presuming you are) tends to think that anyone right leaning has been brainwashed in some way for their thinking that way
I believe myself to be a middle of the road type guy for exampke
I agree with points from both sides, but I find that "middle of the road" gets pushed to the right more and more, until you get to the point were the likes of Elon Musk, Joe Rogan etc are labeled far right for what really is a lot of the time a common sense opinion
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Elon Musk and Joe Rogan deliberately appeal to the right because it's good for them on a commercial level. That doesn't necessarily mean they're genuinely right wing in their beliefs, it just means they know their audience and what sells.

It's the same way that Musk doesn't legitimately support freedom of speech but he knows that if he throws that idea out there early on then he can get away with more later because idiots tend to think and say things like "he stands for freedom of speech?! So do I!"

People have allowed themselves to buy into a social paranoia that our freedom of speech is under threat because they've been spoonfed stories about cancel culture and political correctness gone mad for years.

Musk supports it as long as it benefits him and will deprive others of theirs when his finances or public image are at risk.

But he can say it's what he stands for and people will nod, clap and cheer because even atheists want a preacher.
 
Thaksinssoldier said:
Does he moan about paying tax, or does he moan about government ineptitude at using taxes?

Different things.

Go read some Ayn Rand and gain an understanding as to why Musk and most billionaires dislike taxation.

My guess is you also dislike Bezos for similar reasons.
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No he just doesn’t like paying tax, and Ayn Rand is a **** too. Interesting woman though, but ripped of Nietzsche in many of her philosophical ramblings. Totally right wing capitalist, so obviously she would have an excuse for billionaires not liking taxation.
 
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