Elon Musk

west didsblue said:
Even now its capitalisation is more than double the next largest, and Toyota is a company that makes nearly a million cars a month. Most analysts are now coming to the conclusion that Tesla is just another car company rather than a tech company and its share price is adjusting accordingly. This is borne out by the fact that they have started discounting their models in China due to overcapacity which is something Musk said he’d never do. I’m going to predict that within a year Tesla stock will be where it should be based on the P/E of a typical mid sized car company rather than the P/E of a new exciting innovative tech company where people haven’t worked out what the ceiling is yet.
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Some time back I predicted sub $100 within a year. It was over 200 at the time.

My issue with the TSLA stock price is the link with Musk and Crypto pump and dump scams. Dodge coin was in my view the biggest pump and dump fraud of all time and Musk the leading benefactor. Can't prove it outright but there is enough circumstantial evidence for me. Tesla stock shows a lot of similarity to crypto with the way the stock gets touted on social media.
 
inbetween said:
It's roughly half that as Musk only bought a controlling stake in Twitter.

Much of it was equity financed by others so if Musk is a numpty then we must assume that his other investors are also numpties. That is the likes of Kingdom Holdings, Vanguard, Blackrock, Morgan Stanley etc.
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We’re talking about different things. Tesla paid Musk $50bn whilst its turnover was half that.

You’re seemingly talking about the $44bn Musk pod for Twitter of which about $15bn was financed through elsewhere. JP Morgan have written off 60% of that as a loss already. So yes, I think they were numpties and Musk is the first human in history to personally lose $200bn. Much of it due to his purchase of Twitter and slide into the alt right rabbit hole.
 
SWP's back said:
We’re talking about different things. Tesla paid Musk $50bn whilst its turnover was half that.

You’re seemingly talking about the $44bn Musk pod for Twitter of which about $15bn was financed through elsewhere. JP Morgan have written off 60% of that as a loss already. So yes, I think they were numpties and Musk is the first human in history to personally lose $200bn. Much of it due to his purchase of Twitter and slide into the alt right rabbit hole.
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This is true but I suspect he had made just as much from the far right / crypto rabbit hole and that is why he isn't arsed. And now he controls Twitter he controls a large part of the rabbit hole going forward. Most of his wealth is based on the artificial pumping of his stock price via social media and the crypto bro network.
 
inbetween said:
It's roughly half that as Musk only bought a controlling stake in Twitter.

Much of it was equity financed by others so if Musk is a numpty then we must assume that his other investors are also numpties. That is the likes of Kingdom Holdings, Vanguard, Blackrock, Morgan Stanley etc.


I'm not wrong. I'm wrong if I argued to buy shares 2 months ago and sell them today, that wasn't the case.

Just secondary to this, the stock market last year saw some of the biggest losses across the board since 2008. It has been great for shorters but well shorters excel in the moral expertise that is profiting off pessimism and human misery, something I definitely don't do.
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Musk bought 100% of Twitter. He borrowed money from numerous financial institutions to fund it and a fair chunk of those loans were secured by Tesla stock. The lower the price of Tesla shares, the more of them will be needed to repay the lenders should that need to happen. The way Tesla stock is going he could potentially lose it all to pay back those institutions if he doesn’t make Twitter profitable.

As for you not being wrong, just a reminder of what you said on 5 November
inbetween said:
And anyone with a brain will know this is a fantastic time to buy Tesla shares.
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How you can continue to defend that comment is just odd.
Maybe the market just got it wrong?
 
inbetween said:
On a final note, the Tesla Model 3 and Model Y were the best selling cars in the UK in December, more Model Ys were sold than Minis last year and they're even outstripping sales of everything in terrible right-wing places like Norway. Who'd of thought that so many people liked driving around in so called MAGA hats? Maybe like me they just don't care about politics and certainly not US politics.
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Tesla had 2.12% of the market share of UK new car registrations in 2022, making them the 16th biggest car manufacturer.
 
domalino said:
No, he didn't, as anyone who owned large amounts of stock were allowed to roll over their public shares into private equity.

So Saudi Arabia owns some, Jack Dorsey, QIA, Binance all own varying %.
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I stand corrected.
From what I can gather Musk funded just over 60% of the takeover from his own funds which were a combination of cash mostly from selling Tesla shares and loans from various institutions secured against other Tesla shares. The remaining ~40% was funded by existing shareholders rolling their equity into the company as you say.
 
domalino said:
Tesla had 2.12% of the market share of UK new car registrations in 2022, making them the 16th biggest car manufacturer.
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That is stupidly unfair because Tesla operates solely in the electric car market which for now is relatively small and niche. They will never break into the top manufacturers anytime soon for very obvious reasons, because most people aren't buying electric cars yet.

Let's face it, if you're going to buy an EV then why would you buy any other car? We can forget price because Tesla's main competitors are in the more luxury oriented market(IE, BMW or Mercedes) and they're all more expensive. A BMW i4 starts at £56k, a Tesla Model 3 is £48k.

For a start which other car is integrated into its own dedicated charging network? Tesla provides its own charging network dedicated to Tesla cars. The other manufacturers are totally reliant on 3rd party chargers so as EV sales rise that means your non-Tesla car will be sharing chargers with other non-Tesla cars.

That'll be lovely when you're making a long journey and there's at best 2-4 charging points at a location which is almost always the case. Tesla supercharger stations have at least 12 charger points and they're always opening more and upgrading them. This is where Tesla are a million miles ahead.

tesla-uk-sales-1536x717.png
 
inbetween said:
That is stupidly unfair because Tesla operates solely in the electric car market which for now is relatively small and niche.
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Yes, that’s also why Ferrari have low sales. They operate in a small niche of the car market.
 
inbetween said:
That is stupidly unfair because Tesla operates solely in the electric car market which for now is relatively small and niche. They will never break into the top manufacturers anytime soon for very obvious reasons, because most people aren't buying electric cars yet.

Let's face it, if you're going to buy an EV then why would you buy any other car? We can forget price because Tesla's main competitors are in the more luxury oriented market(IE, BMW or Mercedes) and they're all more expensive. A BMW i4 starts at £56k, a Tesla Model 3 is £48k.

For a start which other car is integrated into its own dedicated charging network? Tesla provides its own charging network dedicated to Tesla cars. The other manufacturers are totally reliant on 3rd party chargers so as EV sales rise that means your non-Tesla car will be sharing chargers with other non-Tesla cars.

That'll be lovely when you're making a long journey and there's at best 2-4 charging points at a location which is almost always the case. Tesla supercharger stations have at least 12 charger points and they're always opening more and upgrading them. This is where Tesla are a million miles ahead.

tesla-uk-sales-1536x717.png
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You’re posting statistic of Tesla performance in the car market, and then get upset when someone points out broader statistics in the car market.

Just looking at your own tables, where 29% of yearly Model Y sales were registered in 1 month should be enough for anyone to realise that this 1 month snapshot is not an accurate portrayal of Tesla’s position in the market.

As for why would anyone buy an electric car that’s not Tesla, you’ll have to ask some of the 205,000 people that did just that last year.

Because Tesla’s 54,000 registrations in the UK was only 20% of the UK full electric car registrations - which doesn’t include PHEVs.
 
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inbetween said:
For a start which other car is integrated into its own dedicated charging network? Tesla provides its own charging network dedicated to Tesla cars. The other manufacturers are totally reliant on 3rd party chargers so as EV sales rise that means your non-Tesla car will be sharing chargers with other non-Tesla cars.

That'll be lovely when you're making a long journey and there's at best 2-4 charging points at a location which is almost always the case. Tesla supercharger stations have at least 12 charger points and they're always opening more and upgrading them. This is where Tesla are a million miles ahead.
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What are the capital costs to maintain such a network? Why wouldn't a private market solution emerge to service the ther brands more effectively at no cost to those manufacturers?

And the average car trip in the UK is 8 miles long. I'd bet the massive majority of trips are under 20. What percentage of Tesla charging stops do you think take place at an owner's home?

I have no dog in this fight (other than once again I've been 100% correct about what kind of person Musk is), but he won't be around forever and Tesla might, plus while the brand may ultimately be damaged by his idiot shenanigans, it also may not be. I'm not sure I understand the benefits of the "locked in" strategy you're referring to, though I get the idea is closed network vs. open, i.e. Apple vs. others. Little different when you are dealing with much longer-lived companies with long-standing brands.
 
inbetween said:
That is stupidly unfair because Tesla operates solely in the electric car market which for now is relatively small and niche. They will never break into the top manufacturers anytime soon for very obvious reasons, because most people aren't buying electric cars yet.

Let's face it, if you're going to buy an EV then why would you buy any other car? We can forget price because Tesla's main competitors are in the more luxury oriented market(IE, BMW or Mercedes) and they're all more expensive. A BMW i4 starts at £56k, a Tesla Model 3 is £48k.

For a start which other car is integrated into its own dedicated charging network? Tesla provides its own charging network dedicated to Tesla cars. The other manufacturers are totally reliant on 3rd party chargers so as EV sales rise that means your non-Tesla car will be sharing chargers with other non-Tesla cars.

That'll be lovely when you're making a long journey and there's at best 2-4 charging points at a location which is almost always the case. Tesla supercharger stations have at least 12 charger points and they're always opening more and upgrading them. This is where Tesla are a million miles ahead.

tesla-uk-sales-1536x717.png
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You REALLY like Elon Musk/Tesla don’t you?!
 
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