Employment Agency rant

[LittleStan]

Good post Fluffy.

4HeatonsBlue,

As you have confirmed what many of us suspected about recruitment agencies. I for one have no problem with recruiters not getting back to me, yes it is annoying but your job is to fill the position not tell somebody why they have not got it.

However, would you let us know how to work with agencies to get around any gaps in CV's?

In my case I have been out of work for two years as a stay at home dad.In that time I have been chair of a search and rescue charity and spent many hours out in the cold and wet looking for vulnerable people. I worked as a volunteer to manage an organizational change project for a national charity. On top of that I am a committee member for my local Association for Project Managers branch and have spent the last 6 months supporting (FOC) a start up to secure EU funding.

Now, if you still think that my work ethic is suspect then tell me, but you could help a lot of blues if you help us understand how to manage a gap with recruiters.

 

[4HeatonsBlue]

I'm not going to reply to any individual posts but in general...

If you have a genuine reason for being out of work for so long (ie caring for sick family members etc) then that is of course fine.

The point is that I would resist sending someone with a gap that long as employers do not like it. My job is to create and fill vacancies according to the clients specifications. Its a harsh fact but many would simply not want someone who has been out of work that long, especially so in technical roles, as you will not be up to date with current technologies and methodologies and as a result less employable.

That is a very general point though and does by no means consider anyones individual circumstances.

If anyone needs any advice please let me know.

 

[ManCitizens.]

An open question to anybody really.

Doing an It/ Business course at Uni and finish this year, ive been working part time for the past 4 years at a call centre whilst at Uni and the last year of college. I was just wondering if 4 years work experience at a call centre will matter to employers? I don't want anything to do with this industry but surely juggling University and work for 3/4 years must count for something?

I've been thinking about using this to help me stand out ahead of other graduates as experience in a working environment but not sure if it will mean anything to potential employers.

Any advice or opinions? Should i emphasise this in my cv/ at an interview etc?

 

[dazdon]

It will definitely stand you in good stead because at the very least it will show a prospective employer that you're conscientious and reliable .

My lad has just give his paper round up and I told him to get a reference from the newsagent which he did...they gave him a glowing reference and that will go in his achievements folder.

Fair play to you m8 for struggling through and hanging in there for your education.

 

[Dirty Harry]

Its a harsh fact but many would simply not want someone who has been out of work that long, especially so in technical roles, as you will not be up to date with current technologies and methodologies and as a result less employable.

That is a very general point though and does by no means consider anyones individual circumstances.

So do you think it would be a good idea if possible to highlight on your CV what you've done to overcome this and give examples of how and when mate ?

An open question to anybody really.

Doing an It/ Business course at Uni and finish this year, ive been working part time for the past 4 years at a call centre whilst at Uni and the last year of college. I was just wondering if 4 years work experience at a call centre will matter to employers? I don't want anything to do with this industry but surely juggling University and work for 3/4 years must count for something?

I've been thinking about using this to help me stand out ahead of other graduates as experience in a working environment but not sure if it will mean anything to potential employers.

Any advice or opinions? Should i emphasise this in my cv/ at an interview etc?

I suppose it's something you should include regardless mate ? Personally I think it highlights a whole range of skills and abilities.
I did the whole 'single parent, college, part-time job' thing myself and basically when it came to applying for jobs it didn't really wash with any of the employers I contacted, in fact on one (a major company) they binned me off on the (very long) initial application process and e-mailed me giving the reason I didn't have enough experience dealing with people, especially in face to face roles.

This was complete bollocks as I pointed out my last job as an example, the only example I would need to show just how it was bollocks, and given what that was they had no choice but to put me through to the interview stage 'claiming' my application had been 'put in the wrong pile', clearly they'd never really bothered reading certain sections of my application properly and made the wrong choice in excuses, I went for the interview but it was clear I was never a consideration for the job due to the break in employment I'd had to take.

 

[AlexWilliamsGloves]

I think people still need to remember that the Agency doesnt make the ultimate decision...the Employer will still decide who they want. Working with the spec and direction of the Client, the Agency will present the most ideal CV/applications.

The Agency will not present ALL applications...they will present perhaps 3 or 4...out of probably dozens or hundreds of applicants.

To be blunt, the Agency will be presenting 3 or 4 CVs of applicants who meet all of the spec and requirements of what the Client wants. Yes, now and again a "wild card" (for want of a better word) will be put forward if the Recruiter feels they are exceptional and worth considering...

...but if a Client asks for "X", and the Recruiter has "X"...why would they send "Y"?

 

[metalblue]

I'm not going to reply to any individual posts but in general...

If you have a genuine reason for being out of work for so long (ie caring for sick family members etc) then that is of course fine.

The point is that I would resist sending someone with a gap that long as employers do not like it. My job is to create and fill vacancies according to the clients specifications. Its a harsh fact but many would simply not want someone who has been out of work that long, especially so in technical roles, as you will not be up to date with current technologies and methodologies and as a result less employable.

That is a very general point though and does by no means consider anyones individual circumstances.

If anyone needs any advice please let me know.

Those are fair observations mate.  Take the present economic climate those in work are still able to attract interest (albeit less than a year or two back) whereas those that have been laid off are seen as damaged goods...the "why were they let go?" question haunts them.

I fully appreciate that you would not want to send candidates through who don't meet your clients needs, your role is to ease the process not be a CV pusher, and if you can't do that then someone else will.   Personally I wouldn't have a problem with a candidates current employment situation if they are suitably experienced/personable but that is my choice and so long as you explore that with the client then that is all you can do...although my HR hate me speaking directly with recruiters but that's how I like to work, if the recruiter doesn't "know" me how can they find the right candidates?

 

[LittleStan]

I think people still need to remember that the Agency doesnt make the ultimate decision...the Employer will still decide who they want. Working with the spec and direction of the Client, the Agency will present the most ideal CV/applications.

The Agency will not present ALL applications...they will present perhaps 3 or 4...out of probably dozens or hundreds of applicants.

To be blunt, the Agency will be presenting 3 or 4 CVs of applicants who meet all of the spec and requirements of what the Client wants. Yes, now and again a "wild card" (for want of a better word) will be put forward if the Recruiter feels they are exceptional and worth considering...

...but if a Client asks for "X", and the Recruiter has "X"...why would they send "Y"?

I don't think anybody is disagreeing with you on this one. The decision to hire can only come from the hiring manager, therefore agencies and to a lesser extent, HR, are hurdles to overcome for those of us out of work.


I was talking to a HR manger about this subject today and he was telling me that they are moving away from agencies for the very reason that they are filtering out people for the wrong reasons and reducing the quality of candidates.

He is particularly annoyed at the number of agencies who copy a job advert of his companies website and re-advertise. When candidates present CV's the agency then touts them to him, at a cost.

 

[metalblue]

An open question to anybody really.

Doing an It/ Business course at Uni and finish this year, ive been working part time for the past 4 years at a call centre whilst at Uni and the last year of college. I was just wondering if 4 years work experience at a call centre will matter to employers? I don't want anything to do with this industry but surely juggling University and work for 3/4 years must count for something?

I've been thinking about using this to help me stand out ahead of other graduates as experience in a working environment but not sure if it will mean anything to potential employers.

Any advice or opinions? Should i emphasise this in my cv/ at an interview etc?

The problem with graduate hiring is you have no relevant experience in the role you are applying for so personality is the key but you need something to pad out the interview process and CV so highlight any parts you think add value to the role you are applying for.

In the past I've had to do graduate selection and it's an arduous affair. It started off with a "phone interview" where I had this god awful crib sheet that was supposed to aid the process and help me score the suitability of the candidate to come in for our assessment day; the candidate already had a good idea of the questions I would likely ask and so I went out of my way to explain that I won't be following HR's crib sheet and I would just have a general chat. Every now and then I would throw in the odd sheeted question, primarily to "test" the candidates ability to quickly change their thought process, and also so that I could complete the feedback form so HR could provide if the candidate asked. Those that I "connected" with were invited to the assessment day. The weirdest experience I had was a guy who owned some chicken company which he ran whilst doing his degree, clearly a bright and motivated guy but zero personable skills so didn't get past the phone interview stage.

The assessment day consists of a bunch of group exercises and challenges. So many fail here by trying to be what you expect we want you to be, basically trying to get yourself noticed whilst trying to subtly but down the "opposition", it was rare for those who played the game to ever get offered jobs; surprisingly we knew what we were looking for and those that were just themselves had the best chance because we could see "them" rather than the smoke and mirrors candidate who thought they were the next Gordon Gekko.

Not sure why I typed all that hopefully you might be able to pick out some advice or an opinion!

 

[AlexWilliamsGloves]

I think people still need to remember that the Agency doesnt make the ultimate decision...the Employer will still decide who they want. Working with the spec and direction of the Client, the Agency will present the most ideal CV/applications.

The Agency will not present ALL applications...they will present perhaps 3 or 4...out of probably dozens or hundreds of applicants.

To be blunt, the Agency will be presenting 3 or 4 CVs of applicants who meet all of the spec and requirements of what the Client wants. Yes, now and again a "wild card" (for want of a better word) will be put forward if the Recruiter feels they are exceptional and worth considering...

...but if a Client asks for "X", and the Recruiter has "X"...why would they send "Y"?

I don't think anybody is disagreeing with you on this one. The decision to hire can only come from the hiring manager, therefore agencies and to a lesser extent, HR, are hurdles to overcome for those of us out of work.


I was talking to a HR manger about this subject today and he was telling me that they are moving away from agencies for the very reason that they are filtering out people for the wrong reasons and reducing the quality of candidates.

He is particularly annoyed at the number of agencies who copy a job advert of his companies website and re-advertise. When candidates present CV's the agency then touts them to him, at a cost.

Indeed, and that is a shared frustration of many Recruiters. I appreciate that there are a number of Recruiters who give the rest a bad name...and why i believe both candidates and clients get a better service from "boutique" agencies.

Im lucky in that i recruit within the Social Care and Professional/Technical Sectors...candidates with very specific skills and career aspirations...a lot of my job involves "selling"* candidates to Clients. I work on the behalf of candidates as much as clients.


*to use the term selling is the easiest way to describe it...i think its an ugly term to use when dealing with people, and thats why candidates have a problem with it. remember, its a free service...no candidate pays for recruitment services. Thats doesnt mean candidates should be treated badly, but it demonstrates where a lot of the priority will lie