England Thread - 2023/24

BlueHammer85 said:
To help you out

the highest win% for England than any other manager , got us to our first ever Euros finals only to lose on pens and has won as many knockout games between 2018-2023 than England have achieved between 1966-2017

Also we were top scorers last World Cup and youngest squad selected.
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As I have said many times, no other supporter base of a nation that we (delusionally) consider rivals to winning major tournaments assess the performance of their manager based on a coefficient calculated on average age of squad, total goals scored, and highest overall win percentage.

And that has contributed to why nearly all of them have won a major tournament (or three) in the last few decades, and we have not.

Only England fans, of the nations considered contenders to win the major tournament, are seemingly merely happy to continually make up the numbers, put in good showings, and maintain a good national team camp (which, by-the-by, is largely down to Southgate playing favourites, as seen with Maguire, Henderson, and others over the years). I would argue the camp isn’t quite as happy and cohesive as portrayed by Southgate or the FA.
 
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domalino said:
Most major tournaments are won by shit managers. Southgate’s not the best but wouldn’t be the worst to win an international tournament.

I don’t remember anyone wishing England had Scaloni before Qatar. Argentine fans were annoyed with his selections, he had zero experience, but ultimately he picked the right XI and they won him a World Cup.

Southgate will go after this tournament, but it’s very unlikely that anyone interested in international management will be a significant upgrade.
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Not sure the Qatar World Cup should be used as a basis for assessing potential manager performance based on relative quality level (or really anything related to trends in World Cups), especially when it comes to the Argentina team and results.

It was very much an outlier in nearly every conceivable way. And many—including a few prominent international managers—would argue the Argentina win had very little to do with their manager (or even their overall quality).

I take the point about there potentially being few better options than Southgate. But that itself is a different argument to the one that he is holding back England: both can be true, as they are not mutually exclusive.
 
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SebastianBlue said:
As I have said many times, no other supporter base of a nation that we (delusionally) consider rivals to winning major tournaments assess the performance of their manager based on a coefficient calculated on average age of squad, total goals scored, and highest overall win percentage.

And that has contributed to why nearly all of them have won a major tournament (or three) in the last few decades, and we have not.

Only England fans, of the nations considered contenders to win the major tournament, are seemingly merely happy to continually make up the numbers, put in good showings, and maintain a good national team camp (which, by-the-by, is largely down to Southgate playing favourites, as seen with Maguire, Henderson, and others over the years). I would argue the camp isn’t quite as happy and cohesive as portrayed by Southgate or the FA.
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There is a reason most of the England match going fans come from teams that don’t win major trophies.

They are more than happy to have a boring wanker as a manager with no honours won in a managerial career.
 
BlueHammer85 said:
So many make out Southgate should be winning everything.

Simple fact is knockout competitions offer no guarantees no matter what manager you have , what squad is selected and what formation you personally think would win every single game.

Fair few on here make out every other nation are walkovers.
France haven’t lost a game in 90mins over four tournaments now.
Belgium had a ‘golden generation’ ranked No.1 in the World.
Italy were unbeaten in 30+ matches when we met them, but apparently that was a ‘poor’ Italian side who we should be beating easily.
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Belgium are the poster child for this England team. They were also managed by a failed club manager. Unlike Southgate, though, he actually won something. He wasnt a good enough coach/tactician to get the team to play to its strengths and relied too heavily on his favourites. Sounds very familiar.

Also, to your point about tournaments. I agree. It is difficult and you need the luck of the draw. Southgate had that twice and shit the bed at the first test. Croatia was bad, but Italy was a disgrace. Southgate lost that final. It should have been over when we scored so early. Italy were absolutely shit scared of our pace on the counter attack. But waistcoat decided to defend the 18 yard box like the Croatia game and Bonucci and Chiellini could advance and support the attack without any worries. Throw in the penalty debacle for good measure.
 
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For me if England have a chance of winning anything they need to play

Walker stones dunk
Rice
Bellingham foden
Saka kane grealish

A decent manager


Left back and keeper I'm unsure on. Can't see Wanker playing Foden in the centre because he will almost always play two DMs. It will be either Phil or Jack wide and maybe neither.
 
As the above.

Regardless of the manager we win a good percentage of games and we come unstuck against quality opposition more often than not. We have no particular style and have some outstanding individuals who sometimes turn up and sometimes don't. Nothing has changed in my lifetime.

any goalkeeper
walker, stones, whoever stones babysits, chilwell
rice
bellingham
saka, foden, grealish
kane

that's a team that should go far in any tournament. And they might....if we don't play a good team first.
 
madloaf said:
As the above.

Regardless of the manager we win a good percentage of games and we come unstuck against quality opposition more often than not. We have no particular style and have some outstanding individuals who sometimes turn up and sometimes don't. Nothing has changed in my lifetime.

any goalkeeper
walker, stones, whoever stones babysits, chilwell
rice
bellingham
saka, foden, grealish
kane

that's a team that should go far in any tournament. And they might....if we don't play a good team first.
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Southgate has been incredibly lucky with qualification and Tournament draws.

It wouldn't surprise me if he does fuck off after the Euros as the nations league draw following the Euros won't be as kind methinks.
 
SebastianBlue said:
Not sure the Qatar World Cup should be used as a basis for assessing potential manager performance based on relative quality level (or really anything related to trends in World Cups), especially when it comes to the Argentina team and results.

It was very much an outlier in nearly every conceivable way. And many—including a few prominent international managers—would argue the Argentina win had very little to do with their manager (or even their overall quality).

I take the point about there potentially being few better options than Southgate. But that itself is a different argument to the one that he is holding back England: both can be true, as they are not mutually exclusive.
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Ok then let’s look back at some other successful international managers and pick which one you want to manage England.

Scaloni
Deschamps
Löw
Lippi
Fernando Santos
Del Bosque
Otto Rehhagel


I would put Mancini but obviously you’d never want a manager who failed to qualify for a World Cup with Italy.
 
hilts said:
For me if England have a chance of winning anything they need to play

Walker stones dunk
Rice
Bellingham foden
Saka kane grealish

A decent manager


Left back and keeper I'm unsure on. Can't see Wanker playing Foden in the centre because he will almost always play two DMs. It will be either Phil or Jack wide and maybe neither.
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He‘ll play Mount in centre mid before Foden too.

He is unbending from his need for two number 6s.
 
Now this is ridiculous and unfair to a number of players last night…

Steve Scott (ITV Sport) just stated on the news “after Jude Bellinghams ONE MAN SHOW last night”… then a piece on him (plus interview) as he went home to Stourbridge.
 
levets said:
Now this is ridiculous and unfair to a number of players last night…

Steve Scott (ITV Sport) just stated on the news “after Jude Bellinghams ONE MAN SHOW last night”… then a piece on him (plus interview) as he went home to Stourbridge.
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Said it last night and I’ll say it again. The reaction to Bellingham and the airbrushing out of everyone else is fucking nauseating.
 
domalino said:
Ok then let’s look back at some other successful international managers and pick which one you want to manage England.

Scaloni
Deschamps
Löw
Lippi
Fernando Santos
Del Bosque
Otto Rehhagel


I would put Mancini but obviously you’d never want a manager who failed to qualify for a World Cup with Italy.
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Are you arguing the point we agree on (that there may not be a better manager available to replace him right now)?

By the way, I would take Del Bosque over Southgate every day of the week, and twice on Sundays.

Even Löw would arguably be better, but I can understand the argument against, as well.

Reminder: asserting that Southgate is holding back England is a completely different argument to whether a better manager is available. They are not mutually exclusive.
 
domalino said:
Ok then let’s look back at some other successful international managers and pick which one you want to manage England.

Scaloni
Deschamps
Löw
Lippi
Fernando Santos
Del Bosque
Otto Rehhagel


I would put Mancini but obviously you’d never want a manager who failed to qualify for a World Cup with Italy.
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You have to look at what they had done before getting the respective international jobs.

Baring Scaloni, all had success domestically and had experience managing in European competition.

I've stated previously, that I think the England manager should have had some success managing in the Premier League and have experience of managing in Europe or European Competition. They don't have to be English.

The FA is not going to fire Southgate, so discussing options for right now is moot. I believe he'll go after the Euro's and if I were the FA I'd be throwing everything at getting Ancelotti in the summer.
 
1961_vintage said:
They need a commercial poster boy. Where's the harm?
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No harm, and I agree completely that it’s down to several industries benefiting from singling out the latest superstar and running with it.
I’m not a fan of it though… unless it was Phil of course.. :-)
 
Phil1 said:
Said it last night and I’ll say it again. The reaction to Bellingham and the airbrushing out of everyone else is fucking nauseating.
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And who gives a fuck ?!

Bellingham was superb. So was a lot of others.
Does it really matter who the media highlight? I’ve avoided all media so couldn’t care less.

Just proud to see a young English side play well and win once again.
 
BlueHammer85 said:
And who gives a fuck ?!

Bellingham was superb. So was a lot of others.
Does it really matter who the media highlight? I’ve avoided all media so couldn’t care less.

Just proud to see a young English side play well and win once again.
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I give a fuck when it’s reported as ‘Bellinghams one man show’. What happened to the one man show v Ukraine?
 
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