England v Croatia | Euro 2020 Group Stage

[M18CTID]

Teams do though

Brazil 70
France 84
France 98 & 2000
Spain 08 & 2010
Germany 2014

All those teams were consistently good throughout the tournament

With England out of 5/6/7 games in a tourement they may have 1 or even 2 games where they look really good and the rest of the games they look average. Im expecting us to beat Scotland and The Cezch Republic but laying in wait are France/Germany/Portugal in the next round and when England up against good teams more likely than not they fail

That's not too many teams across 50 years of tournaments though. And to be fair, France had probably the weakest group in 1998, with South Africa, Saudi Arabia, and Denmark as opposition. Even Scotland might've finished top of that group. Then in the Round of 16, they needed a 114th minute golden goal to knock out Paraguay, penalties to knock Italy out in the quarters, and were a goal down early in the 2nd half of the semi versus Croatia before turning it round. They deservedly won the final though which was their best performance of the entire tournament.
So I'd exclude France 1998 but would be tempted to add West Germany 1990 as they were consistently the best team throughout with England giving them their toughest match in the semi.

 

[KentBlue]

He didn't seem to work at all in the system England played. Every other player seemed to know the game plan and their role within it but Kane just seemed to wander about wherever he fancied and mostly just got in the way.
There were numerous times where we were breaking forward in the wide areas but no one was in the middle waiting for the ball to come in as Kane was so much slower at getting forward than everyone else he was still jogging forward.
He didn't seem to understand his role in the team or have the discipline to hold his position and wait for the ball to come to him in and around the box, he kept moving towards where the ball was rather than being where someone could get the ball to him.
He's a very good player but you get the feeling you have to very much build the team around him rather than ask him to play his part of a team effort to get anything worthwhile from him.

Something I have been saying for so many years now.

The main issue I have with Kane is that he comes across as lethargic and disinterested way too many times. I'm not sure 'flat track bully' is the description I'd use -although I almost certainly have in the past- but I would say he's the sort of player who needs industrious-type players around him in order to have a good game. He isn't the sort to take a game and create things, he'd rather someone else do that and then give him the chance for glory.

A team player he is not.

 

[stonerblue]

He didn't seem to work at all in the system England played. Every other player seemed to know the game plan and their role within it but Kane just seemed to wander about wherever he fancied and mostly just got in the way.
There were numerous times where we were breaking forward in the wide areas but no one was in the middle waiting for the ball to come in as Kane was so much slower at getting forward than everyone else he was still jogging forward.
He didn't seem to understand his role in the team or have the discipline to hold his position and wait for the ball to come to him in and around the box, he kept moving towards where the ball was rather than being where someone could get the ball to him.
He's a very good player but you get the feeling you have to very much build the team around him rather than ask him to play his part of a team effort to get anything worthwhile from him.

Possibly the most unfit player on the pitch yesterday.

 

[ROCKET80]

And Bobby Robson only faced Belgium and Cameroon (and still nearly lost) and actually lost when we came up against quality opposition.

You can twist anything towards your narrative, it certainly doesn't mean it's true, just biased.

What narrative? I'm just stating the bleeding obvious, we were lucky to get as far as we did in Russia and that was mainly due to the favourable draw.

There's no bias either. I have seen nothing from Southgate that makes me think he has any kind of tactical nous and that worries me as we move to the latter stages and come up against opposition of similar quality.

I hope he proves me wrong.

On a side note any case against Bobby Robson at Italia '90 falls down at the Group stage. Up against arguably Ireland's best ever side and a Dutch team including Van Basten, Gullit, Koeman and Rijkaard they were also reigning European Champions, both teams having beat us at the previous Euro's. Belgium were no mugs either, they might not have had the household names we know today but their domestic sides Anderlecht, Mechelen and Brugge all performed well in Europe.

 

[BuzLightyear]

Lots of players warmed up, they do it off their own back a lot of times to make sure they are ready of called upon.

Bellingham and Grealish are different types of player. If we had been losing then Grealish would have got on, we weren't so Bellingham got on to use his energy in a more defensive manner than Grealish would.

I think Grealish will start against Scotland because I expect them to be defensive and Grealish is ideal against a packed low block defence, i would put him in place of either Rice or Phillips as I do not think we will need to play two in that area against Scotland as they offer less threat than Croatia.

He "seems" to be not liked by you, which is fair enough, i think he got it spot on yesterday and this England team excites me more than any other England team i have every watched.

Thank you Rascal. Well made points. I don't dislike Gareth as such but just disappointed at how he treats certain players compared to others. A less conservative approach would also be appreciated given the talent he has at his disposal. Early days still - let's see how it all pans out.

 

[Gorton_Tubster]

What narrative? I'm just stating the bleeding obvious, we were lucky to get as far as we did in Russia and that was mainly due to the favourable draw.

There's no bias either. I have seen nothing from Southgate that makes me think he has any kind of tactical nous and that worries me as we move to the latter stages and come up against opposition of similar quality.

I hope he proves me wrong.

On a side note any case against Bobby Robson at Italia '90 falls down at the Group stage. Up against arguably Ireland's best ever side and a Dutch team including Van Basten, Gullit, Koeman and Rijkaard they were also reigning European Champions, both teams having beat us at the previous Euro's. Belgium were no mugs either, they might not have had the household names we know today but their domestic sides Anderlecht, Mechelen and Brugge all performed well in Europe.

I say bias because the facts tell a different story. Wc semi finals, Nation league semi, win rate better than other England managers (only ,capello has a better win rate and no other manager has got us to two semi finals) and we haven't even finished this tourny yet, but you say he's only good enough for the Championship as a manager?
I don't understand where the bias comes in. He's been comparitvely good tbh

 

[Xhavenjoe]

I see Tyrone Mings and Pritti Patel are having a bit of a disagreement about taking/not taking the knee.

 

[ROCKET80]

I say bias because the facts tell a different story. Wc semi finals, Nation league semi, win rate better than other England managers (only ,capello has a better win rate and no other manager has got us to two semi finals) and we haven't even finished this tourny yet, but you say he's only good enough for the Championship as a manager?
I don't understand where the bias comes in. He's been comparitvely good tbh

Fact: Roberto Di Matteo is a Champions League winning manager.

Fact: Rooney is England's greatest ever goal scorer.

Look into these facts though and you begin to see a different story.

Di Matteo is not a very good manager and Rooney scored against dross, I'd say he scored in 2 games against decent opposition in competitive games.

Again though, I've seen nothing from Southgate that suggests he has the tactical acumen to impact games meaningfully. If we do well in this tournament it'll most likely be in spite of him not because of him.

I'll be supporting him and the team and hoping he proves me wrong. He seems like a nice enough guy and if he goes on to have a successful managerial career at the top level I'll be quite happy to eat humble pie.