England v France - Sat 10th Dec, 19:00 | Quarter-final | World Cup 2022

[prestonibbo_mcfc]

In defence of Maguire ( I’ll wash
my mouth out later) sometimes offer very little movement in front of him when he has the ball, so he’s having to try to thread difficult passes or get closed down. Obviously these passes don’t come off sometimes and it comes across as him being sloppy.

Don’t get me wrong, he certainly has a mistake in him as we’ve seen before, but I think if our midfield had better movement off the ball, it would make our defenders life easier when playing out from the back. Look how many often our defence was having to pass it among themselves yesterday. It wasn’t just down to Senegal pressing well, it’s because we were static in midfield for 30 minutes and made it easy for them to press.

Static and too far forward. There was acres of space in and around the centre circle, that needed filling.

 

[spanishcityfan]

the winner will be spain

 

[supercity88]

In defence of Maguire ( I’ll wash
my mouth out later) sometimes offer very little movement in front of him when he has the ball, so he’s having to try to thread difficult passes or get closed down. Obviously these passes don’t come off sometimes and it comes across as him being sloppy.

Don’t get me wrong, he certainly has a mistake in him as we’ve seen before, but I think if our midfield had better movement off the ball, it would make our defenders life easier when playing out from the back. Look how many often our defence was having to pass it among themselves yesterday. It wasn’t just down to Senegal pressing well, it’s because we were static in midfield for 30 minutes and made it easy for them to press.

We need to just play the ball into midfield even if it comes straight back. Rice and Bellingham have both looked to try and find space to pick it up but there's not much ahead of them. Our best play has come from quick passes inside from our wide players and movement off the ball. It's usually Kane picking it up centrally and threading it through. There was nothing on when Shaw finally gave the ball to Foden in the first half but Foden knew where Kane was and flicked it to him and that was it, we were at them. We saw the same against Iran with Saka.

I agree that we need more from the midfield in terms of an outball, but we should also be fine if we're just keeping it at the back and drawing them out. We've played four teams who have been more defensive so far and they've been happy to let us have it and stop the outball. Against France I'd expect they put a bit more pressure on us which gives us the ability to find a bit more space hopefully. I think we should play more direct though and look to win the second balls. Let the French dictate the play and then counter them.

 

[supercity88]

That’s my concern

If he goes to a back 5, we’ll get overrun in midfield like we did v Croatia and Italy. Plus Griezmann also drops into midfield at times, and that could leave us even more outnumbered in the middle of the park.

If Southgate reverts back to that in this game and goes in with a very defensive mentality , I think that means he hasn’t learned any lessons from those games. You simply can’t allow yourself to be overrun and outnumbered in midfield at this level.

I don’t think you need to play with extra defenders to stop someone like Mbappé, you would be better off being much more competitive in the midfield so they can’t get the ball to him at will because they outnumber you. Then just make sure one of your midfielders can get back and double up when needed.

Spot on. I was convinced we would play a back 5 as soon as we went into a tough knockout game but I'm starting to think we'll stick with the 4. Coming back from 2-0 down against Germany, to be ahead at one point, after switching from a back 5 to a back 4 has probably convinced him it's the way to play. I can only think of the game in the Euro's against Germany where it has worked well, but we were the better team anyway and I think we'd have beaten them regardless then.

As you say, our other experiences of using it have seen us score early but then fail to do much and end up conceding anyway.

 

[Crooked_rain]

Spot on. I was convinced we would play a back 5 as soon as we went into a tough knockout game but I'm starting to think we'll stick with the 4. Coming back from 2-0 down against Germany, to be ahead at one point, after switching from a back 5 to a back 4 has probably convinced him it's the way to play. I can only think of the game in the Euro's against Germany where it has worked well, but we were the better team anyway and I think we'd have beaten them regardless then.

As you say, our other experiences of using it have seen us score early but then fail to do much and end up conceding anyway.

Yeah

Besides, why change a system to one the players haven’t been playing for weeks? I don’t think that’s ideal for any player

I’m very curious about what he will do here.

Of course he could go 5 at the back, beat France and we look stupid. But I feel at this level, that approach will land you in the territory of the Croatia and Italy games more often than the Germany game. Especially looking at who’s left in the competition.

 

[iTyler]

The thing with Rice is that he might be one of the first names on the team sheet but it’s largely because there’s not much real competition in that specific role he being asked to play. We have no outstanding player to play that exact role he is. So he’s just the best choice of what’s available.

I think rice is a good player but I actually think he would be more suited to doing the role Henderson was asked to do v Senegal, covering more of the midfield area. I just don’t think rice excels if he’s asked to shield the defence and also be the player to get things moving after receiving the ball from the back.

That’s not knocking him, I just think the job he’s being asked to do sometimes negates his best attributes and sometimes highlights parts of the game he isn’t quite as good at.

I don't disagree with a lot of that. He would absolutely be better playing a bit higher up the pitch, perhaps in a box to box role. He's excellent when running with the ball, he just doesn't do it often enough and certainly not for England. I just think he, like Henderson, still gets a massive amount of disrespect in general. And I certainly don't see how anybody sane could describe him as some kind of weak link.

 

[iTyler]

In defence of Maguire ( I’ll wash
my mouth out later) sometimes offer very little movement in front of him when he has the ball, so he’s having to try to thread difficult passes or get closed down. Obviously these passes don’t come off sometimes and it comes across as him being sloppy.

Don’t get me wrong, he certainly has a mistake in him as we’ve seen before, but I think if our midfield had better movement off the ball, it would make our defenders life easier when playing out from the back. Look how many often our defence was having to pass it among themselves yesterday. It wasn’t just down to Senegal pressing well, it’s because we were static in midfield for 30 minutes and made it easy for them to press.

I don't even mind Maguire trying to pass it quickly at times. A couple didn't come off early on against Senegal and you're always at risk of getting caught out. But had the passes gone through it would have put England on the front foot and that's what we weren't doing anything like enough for half an hour against Senegal. Fine margins. What I don't want to see is him passing to Stones, and Stones back to Maguire, then out to one of the full-backs and then back to Stones and Maguire again and again. It's infuriating. We look such a good team that can cause havoc for any side when we play at speed making one touch passes instead of trying to be something we're not by holding on to the ball. You can do that now and again to give yourself a breather in games, sure, but we seem to enjoy doing it from kick-off.

 

[supercity88]

Yeah

Besides, why change a system to one the players haven’t been playing for weeks? I don’t think that’s ideal for any player

I’m very curious about what he will do here.

Of course he could go 5 at the back, beat France and we look stupid. But I feel at this level, that approach will land you in the territory of the Croatia and Italy games more often than the Germany game. Especially looking at who’s left in the competition.

This England side aren't good enough to play a back 5 effectively in my opinion. If you push your wingbacks up so they're in attacking positions who have we got who can consistently find them and are they good enough to do anything with the ball when they receive it? We struggle enough to find players in a back 4 but at least it's Foden or Saka wide and they have the ability to create. A back 5 would likely be Shaw, Maguire, Stones, Walker, Trippier. You'd then have Bellingham, Rice, Foden, Kane, Saka. You'd need Foden to do a lot of work in the middle with Kane and have Saka as a ball in behind. Or you could use Rashford for that. Considering Southgate doesn't see Foden as a no10 it would be Mount that probably played instead but I just don't think it would work as well. But, to be fair, when we've played a back 5 it's been in a WC semi and Euro's final. Huge pressure where the system might not be an issue - the players possibly just lacked the confidence and experience to get the job done.

I do think Bellingham's form just lifts us. He doesn't give a shit about the occasion, he lives for it. Henderson also seems in inspired form and hopefully Foden can continue to improve and shine and that confidence just sees us perform better naturally.

 

[wattle]

Maguire loses us this without doubt. He was shocking against Wales and Senegal in easy games.

 

[BlueHammer85]

Maguire loses us this without doubt. He was shocking against Wales and Senegal in easy games.

games we didn't concede ?