England wasting one of the most talented squads ever assembled on Southgate

[Cellarite]

I find all the bitching about Southgate from fans really tiresome.

The players clearly like him and the culture he has created. A final, semi final and quarter final.

Some loons on city youtube channels suggesting Jose Mourhino as Eng manager. I mean wt actual f?

And I find the praise heaped on him regardless of what is staring us in the face really tiresome.

I find the repeated listing of the rounds we got knocked out of each of his tournaments without discussing what is wrong right now as boring as fuck.

I find myself wanting to drive rusty nails through my ballsack, every time someone mentions "the culture" he has created when they have absolutely zero clue as to what the culture is at England camps.

 

[supercity88]

I don't necessarily expect England to play any complicated systems and players in hybrid roles. Plenty of the players might play for teams that don't do that and the short window for international football might not be long enough to get a team well drilled doing it

Its one thing Stones being used to doing it for City and stepping into midfield with Rodri, its another thing doing it with Rice and with Harry Maguire behind you.


So I do think a pragmatic approach in some ways is OK, but more so of just playing your best players in their best positions. With Southgate, sometimes you don't know who will play from one game to the next. If you look at national teams of the past like Spain, they had quite a settled side.

I think anybody with any sense would put Rice as your holding man, Bellingham as an 8 where he can still get forward and Foden as your 10. But Southgate started putting Bellingham as a 10 because he's done a good job with Madrid there for dozen games. But that means you would sacrifice Foden to play Bellingham as a 10, leaving yourself with a much lesser player than both as your 8, i.e Henderson. Just put Bellingham as an 8 because hes still the best player for that position in the England setup, no matter he plays for Madrid..... especially if it means having him as a 10 means you're having to put a much lesser player in the team behind him.

A settled side is certainly beneficial but England haven't been able to do that too often. I think if Gareth had no injury problems his team would be Pickford, Trippier, Maguire, Stones, Walker, Rice, Henderson, Bellingham, Foden, Saka, Kane. Sadly that's not quite to the level of the great Spanish side!

Hopefully in time, and beyond Southgate we continue to bring through players who are tactically flexible and ultimately comfortable on the ball. TAA, Maguire, Henderson, Gallagher and even Rice were all unable to turn when under pressure - from Malta and North Macedonia. Compare that to Lewis and Foden who aren't phased by it at all. Rice, in my opinion is a million miles away from being a top midfielder. Off the ball he's fine. He's got the pace and skill to carry it. But he has to run the game. He should be showing for the ball 99% of the time, anticipating where it will go, finding space, looking forwards, spreading the play. He can't do any of those things. Which is why Bellingham has to play alongside him because he can make things happen. If we play two "holding midfielders" we just will not get the ball forwards enough and you'll end up with Bellingham dropping deep, Foden coming in off the flank and a lack of attacking threat. It's basically what's happened in the last two games.

 

[hilts]

I actually think he would be a good international manager. He still got Roma to the UEFA Cup final last season. He won 2 cups with a shite united team. Got spurs to a final but got sacked a week before.

So he actually knows how to navigate through tournaments, even in recent years.

I don't think his approach to league football and managing a club day in and day out has progressed enough with time, but if you wanted soneome to come in and manage team through a tournament for a few weeks, he would be a great appointment in my opinion.


Southgate was a garbage manager, but even he knows being "pragmatic" can get you close to a finish line in a tournament. Now imagine you had one of the most successful managers of all time that still gets his recent teams to finals and knows how to win tournaments.

Plus Mourinho has had teams that were high scoring when he knows he has the attacking players to do so.

I can't see why he wouldn't be a very good international manager in tournament based football.
.

He may well bore us to death and get quite far.


Like Southgate actually:-)

 

[supercity88]

And I find the praise heaped on him regardless of what is staring us in the face really tiresome.

I find the repeated listing of the rounds we got knocked out of each of his tournaments without discussing what is wrong right now as boring as fuck.

I find myself wanting to drive rusty nails through my ballsack, every time someone mentions "the culture" he has created when they have absolutely zero clue as to what the culture is at England camps.

Typically with all English sports teams it's either amazing or shite! Southgate warrants praise for the togetherness he has created, but arguably he's gone too far in his loyalty to some and stifled/made a mockery of the system. Maguire, Henderson and Phillips all continually picked despite others deserving to be in ahead of them. He talks about experience, whilst not giving others the chance to get some. He's without a doubt tactically inept and he doesn't have a winning mentality. He talked about the team having one and getting to world number 1 and then he picks a side that struggles to perform and doesn't change it so we draw to North Macedonia!

He's done a good job, this isn't the most talented England squad ever as much as people claim it is.

I'll keep supporting though, and we'll see what happens. I did enjoy the WC in 2018 and the Euro's last time out - much better memories than previous England tournaments at least.

 

[Cellarite]

Typically with all English sports teams it's either amazing or shite! Southgate warrants praise for the togetherness he has created, but arguably he's gone too far in his loyalty to some and stifled/made a mockery of the system. Maguire, Henderson and Phillips all continually picked despite others deserving to be in ahead of them. He talks about experience, whilst not giving others the chance to get some. He's without a doubt tactically inept and he doesn't have a winning mentality. He talked about the team having one and getting to world number 1 and then he picks a side that struggles to perform and doesn't change it so we draw to North Macedonia!

He's done a good job, this isn't the most talented England squad ever as much as people claim it is.

I'll keep supporting though, and we'll see what happens. I did enjoy the WC in 2018 and the Euro's last time out - much better memories than previous England tournaments at least.

Absolutely. This is where supporters and critics of Southgate seem to be different.

I want him gone. I think he's wearing a tactical straight-jacket rather than a waistcoat. He seems unable to read a game and adapt in-game accordingly. He's too loyal to players like Henderson and more so Maguire. In fact, I think he's massively responsible for the bullying that Maguire endured a month or two ago. He makes his stupid rules up as he goes along such as not playing certain players in certain positions and then ignoring his own rules when it suits. He plays players who are out of form for far too long because "they've never let him down" but leave in form players out for far too long like Anthony Gordon, Raheem Sterling and Sean Longstaff.

I am prepared however, to accept that his tournament record has been decent compared to previous managers and he deserves credit for it. It's ok to say we should have won those games, but under previous managers, we wouldn't have won those games.

There's the difference. Southgate's supporters, particularly on here, seem to refuse to accept any criticism of him and merely write out his tournament record or results from this year in reply to every negative post about him.

 

[Crooked_rain]

He may well bore us to death and get quite far.


Like Southgate actually:-)

The difference being one of them has won 26 major trophies in football and has reached 22 finals, won 18.

the other got boro relegated.

Mourinho's teams were good to watch when they had decent firepower. Holds the record for most goals in a season at Madrid, 121. More than Pep has managed at here or Barca..

I am sure he would get a lot more out of the talent we have than Southgate can..

 

[domalino]

He plays players who are out of form for far too long because "they've never let him down" but leave in form players out for far too long like Anthony Gordon, Raheem Sterling and Sean Longstaff.

Not even 6 months ago though, Sterling was one of the ones he was getting pelters for playing for too long despite being out of form. He can't win.

I think the whole premise of the title is wrong, a hangover from the idea of a golden generation in the 00s. English football has fundamentally changed with the arrival of City and Chelsea's academies. The production line of world class talents that are coached and taught in a way that makes them elite players at the best clubs in the world has started and it's not going to turn off.

Southgate has done a really good job laying foundations for this next generation. He's changed the whole mood around the team, he's broken down all those stupid cliques and mentality problems that stifled the "golden generation", he's gone further in competitions than anyone in living memory, he's won penalty shootouts, he's beaten big name teams like Spain and Germany, and he's taken them to a final.

Foden, Saka, Palmer, Bellingham, Lewis, Gallagher, James, Colwill, they're going to be playing for England for the next 10 years. The "experienced" players of Sterling, Stones, Pickford, Kane, Alexander-Arnold, Rice are all going to be good for another 1 or 2 world cup cycles.

It's clearly time for more of a tactician to come in and get them over the line, but if they do, I guarantee the players and new manager give Southgate heaps and heaps of credit for laying the groundwork.

 

[hilts]

The difference being one of them has won 26 major trophies in football and has reached 22 finals, won 18.

the other got boro relegated.

Mourinho's teams were good to watch when they had decent firepower. Holds the record for most goals in a season at Madrid, 121. More than Pep has managed at here or Barca..

I am sure he would get a lot more out of the talent we have than Southgate can..

The other difference is one of them also seems to get sacked a lot for being a bit of a dick and for the lack of decent football. I have no interest in discussing how good someone used to be.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

The other difference is one of them also seems to get sacked a lot for being a bit of a dick and for the lack of decent football. I have no interest in discussing how good someone used to be.

That’s not fair. He won the Europa Conference League recently.

Not many elite managers win that trophy.

Haters would suggest they’re never in it, but the point still stands.

Well, apart from its current winner, who is none other than the chosen one himself, David Moyes.

 

[Cellarite]

Not even 6 months ago though, Sterling was one of the ones he was getting pelters for playing for too long despite being out of form. He can't win.

I think the whole premise of the title is wrong, a hangover from the idea of a golden generation in the 00s. English football has fundamentally changed with the arrival of City and Chelsea's academies. The production line of world class talents that are coached and taught in a way that makes them elite players at the best clubs in the world has started and it's not going to turn off.

Southgate has done a really good job laying foundations for this next generation. He's changed the whole mood around the team, he's broken down all those stupid cliques and mentality problems that stifled the "golden generation", he's gone further in competitions than anyone in living memory, he's won penalty shootouts, he's beaten big name teams like Spain and Germany, and he's taken them to a final.

Foden, Saka, Palmer, Bellingham, Lewis, Gallagher, James, Colwill, they're going to be playing for England for the next 10 years. The "experienced" players of Sterling, Stones, Pickford, Kane, Alexander-Arnold, Rice are all going to be good for another 1 or 2 world cup cycles.

It's clearly time for more of a tactician to come in and get them over the line, but if they do, I guarantee the players and new manager give Southgate heaps and heaps of credit for laying the groundwork.

6 months ago? You mean like, last season?

So he was playing an out of form player last season and is leaving the same, in-form player out this season? And he can't win? There's a very fucking simple solution to this particular puzzle which I'm sure you're intelligent enough to work out if you wanted to.