England's problem

[Cheadle_hulmeBlue]

This is part of the problem. Chambers and Stones have not been great all season. In fact they have both been very hit and miss. They are far inferior to the players that went and would have been absolutely destroyed. Once more we keep overrating average players.

I don't think anyone is overating them, they are both in there first full season and both of the them are what 19 ???. They played very well and been impressive, there has barely ever been world class 19 year olds its there potential that's exciting. They've shown that. I think we keep making out all our players are average when there not especially the young ones who right now are some of the best in Europe, ie England u17s who won and dominated the euros

No you are overrating them and claiming they played very well. They were okay and that's it. They might develop, but they have not shown they have the ability to become world class. They may in the future become good players, but they are nothing special. Even Shaw does not really have the talent or potential of Cole. Only Barkley and Wilshere really have world class potential with Chamberlain/Shaw a maybe. Milner and Lennon were playing at 16, but neither had world class potential.

Well that's your opinion but from what I've seen of them they are good players with lots of potential. Apart from a few players in football there aren't any really world class players, so I doubt they will be world class, i never even mentioned them becoming world class btw just that they have played well. Yaya toure was no where near the player he is today at 19 but he developed a lot later on, I don't know how you can already right off a player and say no he doesn't have the talent, same with cole he was no where near as good as shaw at the same age. But then developed.

I'm sure if shaw was Brazilian and playing for Dortmund you would be raving about him. Only joking btw.

 

[Straightouttahampton]

The problem is that too few of "Team England" have read / seen Waiting for Godot or Groundhog Day.

I predict the following:

1. England stagger through group by skin of their teeth and qualify for France 2016
2. Everyone agrees that qualification is the most important thing (which it is).
3. Pundits and journalists begin to talk earnestly about a "new generation" of players
4. World Champions France and Daft Punk release "Le Football est rentre chez nous" - produced by Nile Rodgers - eclipsing the pitiful England offering
5. Raggedy flags of St George appear on white vans, pubs and houses
6. Panini stickers on sale in Costcutters
7. Lazy articles in the press abound about snails, frogs' legs and the can-can. Also the brilliant French team of the 80s - Tigana, Six, Rocheteau, Platini, etc. (Seriously, it was quality)
8. Large numbers of people who otherwise take no interest in football talk knowledgeably (or ignorantly - take your pick) about Shaw, Barkley, Sterling, Lallana (in fact the entire Southampton team) as the new "golden" generation
9. Equally large numbers of people attach huge significance to the fact that England are unfancied. (Why...?)...
10. BBC3 shows updated version of the "worst ever England XI". Carlton Palmer makes the cut. This time Glen Johnson sneaks in.
11. Home friendly arranged against Hungary
12. Away friendly arranged against the mighty Luxembourg. Remember - there are no gimmes these days in international football
13. England perform in pedestrian style in the above. Manager declares himself pleased with the positives
14. Talisman player picks up injury - Beckham, Rooney, Barry, Oxlade-C. This time it's Raheem Sterling's haircut
15. Radio 5 interrogates eminent Oxford professor of surgery to comment on recovery period for (delete as appropriate) metatarsal/knee ligament/hair weave/psychological trauma
16. Scare stories in the tabloids about hooligan fears. Mass handing in of passports across the country
17. Media becomes increasingly hysterical - anything less than the semi-final will be a disaster
18. Geoff Hurst says he "has a feeling" this is England's year. It is, after all, our turn
19. So does Steven Gerrard - by this time he is player-manager of Tranmere Rovers
20. Players and management say this is the "best prepared" team they have been involved with. Spirit in the camp has never been better
21. Opening game ends in disappointment, with at least one one defensive howler and scuffing of good chances
22. Pundits take the positives from the game. We can still qualify
23. Small cabal of senior players stage revolt, and pitch up at manager's hotel room at midnight on the day before crunch game. "Play us in our favourite positions - or else". Meanwhile the same senior players deny the revolt in the tabloids.
24. England stumble through group stage. (Or possibly not)
25. England humiliated by first half decent team they meet in knockout stage - quite possibly a team on a fraction of their wages
26. Blame apportioned to (delete as appropriate) - being too tired at the end of a PL season/ball too light/ball too heavy/heat/humidity/altitude/internal travel/inferior accommodation/presence of WAGs/absence of WAGs/ boredom/opposition's "technical" superiority/refereeing incompetence/German goal-line technology/too many foreigners in PL/players' use of social networking/anti-capitalism riots/etc. Or just the fact that the opposition are simply too foreign
27. Blame never apportioned to lack of skill, ability to pass and move into space or tendency to lose concentration
28. Low level reprisals taken across the country with minor vandalism of (delete as appropriate) Pret a Manger/BMWs/pizza restaurants/Albanian Consulate
29. "Team England" attempt to fly into Stansted unnoticed at 3.00 am.
30. Team England ambushed by press in Stansted arrivals lounge at 3.10 am.
31. Team England lynched and disembowelled on the front and back pages
32. Much hand-wringing, followed by root and branch review of tactics/coaching/youth development/grass roots game
33. Manager replaced and incumbent - let's assume it's Roy (and his successors in 2018/2020/2022) - takes job in Sunderland/Saudi Arabia/Switzerland
34. When the dust settles, the new manager and the FA declare that this was a tournament too early for the new golden generation - we are told to wait for 2018/2020/2022
35. Players' ghosted autobiographies released at Christmas and relate detailed accounts of the revolt described above
36. Repeat every two years.

It's the gift that keeps giving..!

 

[kippaxwarrior]

Both Rooney and Wilshire have both said sorry on social media however after the word sorry they have put an exclamation mark. To that shows they dont really give a shite so they can fuck off

 

[NipHolmes]

The problem is clear.

We are too diverse a country. We have no system, and we have too many different approaches to the game. We are stuck somewhere between route one and tika taka. What we need to do is scrap the fucking lot and concentrate on clever opposition with clever use of pace. Instead of poorly mimicking what is successful we need to work to our strengths and build on that. I'd retire Rooney, Gerrard, Lampard, Carrick etc and I'd go with all youngsters in 16.

i beleive their needs to be a bonus system paid to clubs. If you are say MK Dons and bring through a young team that's succesful in U15's you should get a few mill subsidised by a pool of cash from tv deals in premier league. I also believe in a life time clause for smaller clubs who get cuts of wages and fees from players as they get older. That way we get more clubs doing the best they can to produce English players whom flourish because clubs build around them.

I have too wide a view to put down into one post but a change from top to bottom and a fresh approach is needed for sure.

 

[bluebanjo]

When you see the intensity that some teams play at, for instance Chile, you can see why we don't get far. Our players don't chase the ball when we don't have it whereas Chile never let it rest.

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

Couple of major problems with England. I have alluded to the lack of qualified coaches in another thread, but less than 6000 EUFA A, B and pro licence coaches. Spain, Italy and Germany have about 100 000 between them. Until that changes the number of quality players will not improve.
Next is the sheer breadth of high level sport we are supposed to compete at. Only country in the world that thinks it has a chance of competing/winning in every world sport. The talent pool gets more and more diluted as people land on a particular sport.
Finally, as Patrick Vierra said and at the risk of people on here disagreeing somewhat, surely it is time to try a mid season break! Look at all the disappointments at the World Cup so far, in terms of player performance. The entire England team, David Silva, Ozil, Hernandez, Dzecko, Azpilecueta, Torres, Mata, Toure, Bony, Valencia, Mikel, Aguero, Zabaleta, Nani and Belgium. All play in England and everyone of them has under-performed. It could be coincidence but...........

 

[Bozzie]

Every manager picks the team the media wants.Then they get crucified by the media when it goes tits up.

Hodgson definitely fell into the 'we've got to play like Liverpool' trap that was set by the media. I was surprised that he did, had he been more astute he would have said "we'd like to play like City, but I can't pick Zabaletta, Kompany, Toure, Silva, or Aguero".

Admittedly Liverpool blew several teams away last season, but they also conceded 50 goals and there is a strong argument that their tactics won't prove as successful next season if Rodgers continues with that style of play. City maintained the balance between strong defence and strong attack, that's why we scored the same as Liverpool but conceded far less. England don't have the luxury of picking a team to do that so picking four attacking players in Sturridge, Wellbevk, Rooney and the somewhat overrated Sterling was suicidal given the lack of quality playing behind them.

 

[supercrystal7]

I don't think anyone is overating them, they are both in there first full season and both of the them are what 19 ???. They played very well and been impressive, there has barely ever been world class 19 year olds its there potential that's exciting. They've shown that. I think we keep making out all our players are average when there not especially the young ones who right now are some of the best in Europe, ie England u17s who won and dominated the euros

No you are overrating them and claiming they played very well. They were okay and that's it. They might develop, but they have not shown they have the ability to become world class. They may in the future become good players, but they are nothing special. Even Shaw does not really have the talent or potential of Cole. Only Barkley and Wilshere really have world class potential with Chamberlain/Shaw a maybe. Milner and Lennon were playing at 16, but neither had world class potential.

Well that's your opinion but from what I've seen of them they are good players with lots of potential. Apart from a few players in football there aren't any really world class players, so I doubt they will be world class, i never even mentioned them becoming world class btw just that they have played well. Yaya toure was no where near the player he is today at 19 but he developed a lot later on, I don't know how you can already right off a player and say no he doesn't have the talent, same with cole he was no where near as good as shaw at the same age. But then developed.

I'm sure if shaw was Brazilian and playing for Dortmund you would be raving about him. Only joking btw.

The last bit may be a joke, but too many people actually believe. Maybe Brazilians etc are actually rated, because they are better and prove it constantly bu winning things.

I saw Cole at 19 and he had more potential than Cole. It's true some players come out of no where, but these are the exceptions. I am not writing off Chambers or Stones, but they are not these great hopes some people like to think. I don't think they have the ability to match the likes of Terry, Ferdinand, etc.

You mention Yaya Toure, but did you actually watch him at that age or are you just assuming?

 

[Bigga]

The problem is clear.

We are too diverse a country. We have no system, and we have too many different approaches to the game. We are stuck somewhere between route one and tika taka. What we need to do is scrap the fucking lot and concentrate on clever opposition with clever use of pace. Instead of poorly mimicking what is successful we need to work to our strengths and build on that. I'd retire Rooney, Gerrard, Lampard, Carrick etc and I'd go with all youngsters in 16.

i beleive their needs to be a bonus system paid to clubs. If you are say MK Dons and bring through a young team that's succesful in U15's you should get a few mill subsidised by a pool of cash from tv deals in premier league. I also believe in a life time clause for smaller clubs who get cuts of wages and fees from players as they get older. That way we get more clubs doing the best they can to produce English players whom flourish because clubs build around them.

I have too wide a view to put down into one post but a change from top to bottom and a fresh approach is needed for sure.

I wasn't going to traipse through all theses pages, but you've stated similar to what I was going to say.

I don't watch the England games, in detail, cos they are predictable. Vieira said they were '40 years behind' and I think that's a fair assessment. I find there's still a lot of the 'kick and rush' element at international level, which is shocking! Outside that aspect there's no interchanging of moment in positions. It's just extremely poor all around and the manager should be someone who is up-to-date with current systems and not shoehorn players into certain positions.

There's no ball winner, no playmaker. Nothing creative. Zip.

Henderson over Milner? Shrek kicking off about wanting be in his central role when he doesn't play there for his club?? I would have actually selected Lescott over Jagielka. Seriously. That's the spine of the team and if that's wrong, it's all wrong.

The national team needs a manager with their own thoughts and not a yes man.

 

[Dubai Blue]

Like him or loathe him, Stuart Pearce is bang on when he complains about the FA's treatment of the U21 setup. Too many of England's most promising young players bypass this level of football completely as they get fast-tracked straight into the full squad where they then sit on their arses doing not very much. They end up missing out on much-needed actual tournament experience and have no chance of developing a coherent system of playing international football with players of their own generation.

City got the piss taken about wanting to be 'holistic', but that's exactly what the FA should be doing at international level; developing a system that is practiced and played at every single age group regardless of the potential for success. Let the players develop together under this system and go to international tournaments as a group before eventually graduating to the first team. It won't guarantee success but it must surely have a better chance of working than the current scatter-gun approach.

The most infuriating thing about England's predicament is that many of the suggested fixes have been doing the rounds since the Euro 2000 debacle, so we could comfortably have been reaping the rewards by now if the FA had considered pulling their heads out of their arses rather than building a big shiny new stadium.