English are 'anti-semitic'

[eagle]

How far back do you go to acknowledge ownership rights? A gap of 2000 years and a tenuous link based on a religious text is to tenuous too constitute rights of ownership.

Any dishonest appropriation always requires subterfuge hence the myths over rights of ownership. Also many of the immigrants have been described as Khazars, that is converts to the religion whose ancestors could never have come form that location.

One solution and a far solution would be a one state solution. I don't think the hosts can be more hospitable than that.

I don't disagree with your last remark but the rest of that post is utter & complete tripe. I can't even be bothered arguing with such one-eyed, ill-informed stupidity. You sound like you've been on those right wing revisionist websites that claim that Rupert Murdoch is Jewish.

You will find that I am always against genuine anti-semitism, in many discussions on here I always stand against anti jewish remarks. However I think you have fallen into the camp that calls anyone who doesn't agree 100% with the Israeli government anti Semitic.

I have close friendships with many Jews including Neturei Karta (Orthodox Jews) so I think you are getting excessively offended.

 

[ElanJo]

Israeli politicians playing he anti-semitic card? What a surprise...

Can't stand Judaism, Islam, Christianity and others but don't hate Jews, Muslims and Christians simply for believing in their religion. If anything I pity them.

 

[Skashion]

Israelis will never accept a one-state solution in this lifetime. It goes against the very fundamental aim of Zionism; a Jewish state. They would go to war much much much sooner than surrender that. For that reason, one major concern I have about the future is the growth of the Israeli Arab constituency. Personally, I think the Israelis have little to fear from the growth of that constituency because opinion polls have continually demonstrated they don't hold the same views as Palestinian Arabs but try telling that to the Israeli right-wing who will no doubt whip up a populist hate campaign against the 'fifth column'.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

I don't disagree with your last remark but the rest of that post is utter & complete tripe. I can't even be bothered arguing with such one-eyed, ill-informed stupidity. You sound like you've been on those right wing revisionist websites that claim that Rupert Murdoch is Jewish.

You will find that I am always against genuine anti-semitism, in many discussions on here I always stand against anti jewish remarks. However I think you have fallen into the camp that calls anyone who doesn't agree 100% with the Israeli government anti Semitic.

I have close friendships with many Jews including Neturei Karta (Orthodox Jews) so I think you are getting excessively offended.

Offended? Your post is laughable and where did I call you anti-semitic?

OK if you insist I'll answer it. A Jewish state is a historical fact not a biblical myth. Judea became a Roman province early AD and the first Jewish revolt was crushed in 70AD with the fall of Jerusalem but despite horrendous loss of life there was still a significant Jewish presence. Further revolts followed and the Bar Kochba revolt resulted in the re-establishment of a sovereign Jewish state up to 135AD. The revolt was again crushed, many were killed or exiled and that effectively was the start of the Diaspora. However many Jews still remained some in Jerusalem and the coast but mainly in Galilee. The Romans then renamed the province Palestine.

About 300 years later many returned when the Persian empire (where most exiles had gone) successfully conquered it.

It changed hands many times, becoming part of the Caliphate (as did Spain), then it was ruled by the Egyptian Mameluks (who welcomed Jewish refugees from Christian persecution in Europe) then the Ottoman Empire for from the 16th century until the British conquest in 1918. The British allowed further immigration but this produced tension with the Arabs and they kept a tight limit on numbers, even when the scale of the tragedy facing European Jews became clear. That's partly why the Israelis see the British as anti-semitic. not saying it's justified but that's how it is.

The British failed to come up with a solution acceptable to both sides so passed responsibility to the newly established UN who passed the partition plan with the necessary 2/3rds majority. So where's the "dishonest appropriation"?

Tell me why Egypt and Jordan annexed the Gaza Strip and West Bank respectively after 1948 instead of handing it over to the Palestinians? I don't disagree that since 1967 the situation has been a complete mess and I don't agree with the settlements but that can be resolved.

Most initial immigrants in the early years of Israel were Jews of Arab/North African origin, who were expelled by Yemen, Iraq, Morocco, Egypt, etc. The Khazars are a complete red herring but they were accepted converts, as is anyone who follows the correct procedure regardless of where they come from. I know women from Burma & Finland who converted. Do Catholics have to come from Italy.

 

[eagle]

http://www.thecanadiancharger.com/page.php?id=5&a=367

That is a very interesting article and is similar to a lot of evidence that suggests such fascist views are the norm over there.

It is also hypocritical when you see caricatures of Arabs being continually portrayed in the media yet simultaneous ongoing anti German propaganda. This is no different to the way Jews were treated in the run up to WW2. Look at the caricatures and you will see they are identical except that Jews have been replaced by a different group.

One piece one that comes to mind is the the way that Joseph Goebbels portrayed Jewry in his propaganda films, including those depicting Nathan Mayer Rothschild and Jewry as two timing the French to lower bond prices with a view to buying them at reduced prices. How is this different to Hollywood and much of the media regularly portraying the current convenient "other" as terrorists.

Lets hope that they all accept a one state solution, for all of our sakes, and live together in peace both indigenous and immigrant alike.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

http://www.thecanadiancharger.com/page.php?id=5&a=367

That is a very interesting article and is similar to a lot of evidence that suggests such fascist views are the norm over there.

So the Arabs have no problem with Jews then? Like i said, it's all so one-sided.

 

[Skashion]

So the Arabs have no problem with Jews then? Like i said, it's all so one-sided.

Do you not recognise that more wrongs have been committed one way than the other? Do you not recognise that the balance needs to be redressed more one way than the other?

-- Tue Aug 03, 2010 3:05 pm --

Lets hope that they all accept a one state solution, for all of our sakes, and live together in peace both indigenous and immigrant alike.

I hope there could be a one-state solution one day, but not in this lifetime. I cannot accept that the Palestinians must be stateless until a one-state solution becomes possible. I think even a two-state solution is out of the reach at present. That situation can change more quickly though.

 

[eagle]

That is a very interesting article and is similar to a lot of evidence that suggests such fascist views are the norm over there.

So the Arabs have no problem with Jews then? Like i said, it's all so one-sided.

Think you will find that the Arabs were your greatest friends whilst the the programs where going on in Europe and when the Jews were being forced to change their religion in Spain and effectively expelled from Europe. My understanding is that their religion (muslim and christian) compels them to respect the rights of Jews. The views I hear from Arab friends is that this minor indiscretion of interloping in Palestine will be forgotten one day, the Jews have suffered enough at the hands of the Nazis and there is a will to help them. Its like giving a homeless friend a room to only find he thanks the host by taking over all of downstairs and points to a fictitious receipt. You still wish them well but it leaves a sour taste.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

So the Arabs have no problem with Jews then? Like i said, it's all so one-sided.

Think you will find that the Arabs were your greatest friends whilst the the programs where going on in Europe and when the Jews were being forced to change their religion in Spain and effectively expelled from Europe. My understanding is that their religion (muslim and christian) compels them to respect the rights of Jews. The views I hear from Arab friends is that this minor indiscretion of interloping in Palestine will be forgotten one day, the Jews have suffered enough at the hands of the Nazis and there is a will to help them. Its like giving a homeless friend a room to only find he thanks the host by taking over all of downstairs and points to a fictitious receipt. You still wish them well but it leaves a sour taste.

I meant that if you did a survey in the Gaza Strip, Egypt or Iran you would get a far more extreme result. There are surveys that say a large majority of Israelis want a two-state solution and would give up land for security to achieve that.

I agree that the Moors particularly (North African more than Arab) were very hospitable to the Jews. There's a fountain in one of the courtyards of the Alhambra Palace that has twelve spouts (representing the twelve tribes of Israel) and was a gift from the Jewish community in Granada to the Moorish ruler. And there were many, well established Jewish communities all over North Africa and west of the Jordan. So there's no doubt the two communities CAN live together. Sadly politics, vested interests and extremism on both sides got in the way.

But again, I don't understand why Jordan and Egypt didn't hand over the West Bank and Gaza before 1967? Can anyone explain why?

 

[tueartsboots]

Think you will find that the Arabs were your greatest friends whilst the the programs where going on in Europe and when the Jews were being forced to change their religion in Spain and effectively expelled from Europe. My understanding is that their religion (muslim and christian) compels them to respect the rights of Jews. The views I hear from Arab friends is that this minor indiscretion of interloping in Palestine will be forgotten one day, the Jews have suffered enough at the hands of the Nazis and there is a will to help them. Its like giving a homeless friend a room to only find he thanks the host by taking over all of downstairs and points to a fictitious receipt. You still wish them well but it leaves a sour taste.

I meant that if you did a survey in the Gaza Strip, Egypt or Iran you would get a far more extreme result. There are surveys that say a large majority of Israelis want a two-state solution and would give up land for security to achieve that.

I agree that the Moors particularly (North African more than Arab) were very hospitable to the Jews. There's a fountain in one of the courtyards of the Alhambra Palace that has twelve spouts (representing the twelve tribes of Israel) and was a gift from the Jewish community in Granada to the Moorish ruler. And there were many, well established Jewish communities all over North Africa and west of the Jordan. So there's no doubt the two communities CAN live together. Sadly politics, vested interests and extremism on both sides got in the way.

But again, I don't understand why Jordan and Egypt didn't hand over the West Bank and Gaza before 1967? Can anyone explain why?

cos Jordan is a money grabbing, self obsessed media whore. Oops wrong thread ! ;D