English are 'anti-semitic'

[bluemanc]

England no,Muslims yes.

Alex Chapper, 33, was the victim of a "faith-hate" crime in July last year. He was returning from a synagogue in Ilford, Essex, with three Jewish friends after conducting a service. All were wearing skull caps. Seven Asian teenagers followed them down the road shouting "Yehudi", which means Jew in Arabic. One of them shouted, "We are Pakistani, you are Jewish. We are going to kill you", before punching Rabbi Chapper in the face and hitting one of his friends over the head with a bottle.

The Manchester Jewish population has for a lomg time been targeted by the extremer elements & we had a case at the last general election where a Muslim candidate for no other reason than racist tried to convince voters not to vote for a Jewish candidate.
At the moment these attacks seem to be kept low key but the shit will hit the fan when they start to defend themselves against the intimidation.

 

[Skashion]

Palestinians shouldn't just leave for the Israelis to have more land, a multi-cultural state is the only acceptable option, not a solely jewish one, not a solely arabic/islamic one, neither side is more right or reasonable than the other.

I object to one of the assertions in this post and not just because the Palestinian diaspora has a sizeable Christian minority - something which is frequently omitted by the media, can't think why... I know it wasn't your intention, and you'll probably think I'm misrepresenting you - really I just want to make this point, but I don't like it when the conflict becomes associated with being a Jewish/Islamic thing because it isn't. It's something I hear time and again about the conflict - oh they'll never sort it out, them Jews and Muslims have been killing each other since time began.

 

[ElanJo]

Both populaces, indeed practically the entire world, want a 2 state solution. Unfortunately the governments of the US and Israel won't allow it and have actively worked against it for decades. They make mentions of it every now and then but only when it is currently unfeasable. Their actions speak for themselves.

 

[lloydie]

[/size]
palestinian refugees?

How come the 800,000 refugees from Arabic countries and North Africa could be absorbed into Israel and other countries without problems? And the other thousands of refugees from Eastern Europe after the war managed to make decent lives for themselves elsewhere in the world and aren't whingeing about going back to their towns and villages in Poland, Ukraine, the Baltic States, etc?

Whereas the Palestinians (most of who now have only a tenuous connection with the places they left) are still sitting in Gaza. They're not refugees they're political pawns.

How many to Israel? And "without problems"? I understand your desire to defend Israel but that takes selectivity into the realm of the disingenuous.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Palestinians shouldn't just leave for the Israelis to have more land, a multi-cultural state is the only acceptable option, not a solely jewish one, not a solely arabic/islamic one, neither side is more right or reasonable than the other.

I object to one of the assertions in this post and not just because the Palestinian diaspora has a sizeable Christian minority - something which is frequently omitted by the media, can't think why... I know it wasn't your intention, and you'll probably think I'm misrepresenting you - really I just want to make this point, but I don't like it when the conflict becomes associated with being a Jewish/Islamic thing because it isn't. It's something I hear time and again about the conflict - oh they'll never sort it out, them Jews and Muslims have been killing each other since time began.

Good point. There are many Muslim Arabs who are citizens of Israel proper and also the Druze, who are Christian Arabs.

The point is that the Muslims and Jews have often lived happily together and in many places still do. In Canada, for example, they co-operate very closely on food matters as the laws governing halal and kosher food are almost identical. I believe that the Muslim religious authorities in one place even accept anything deemed kosher as automatically halal.

And that's the tragedy of the situation. Politics is the problem not ethnicity or religion.<br /><br />-- Tue Aug 03, 2010 6:57 pm --<br /><br />

How come the 800,000 refugees from Arabic countries and North Africa could be absorbed into Israel and other countries without problems? And the other thousands of refugees from Eastern Europe after the war managed to make decent lives for themselves elsewhere in the world and aren't whingeing about going back to their towns and villages in Poland, Ukraine, the Baltic States, etc?

Whereas the Palestinians (most of who now have only a tenuous connection with the places they left) are still sitting in Gaza. They're not refugees they're political pawns.

How many to Israel? And "without problems"? I understand your desire to defend Israel but that takes selectivity into the realm of the disingenuous.

At least three quarters went to Israel and they virtually all had to leave their property behind. Some were expelled, others intimidated and others just decided it wasn't safe any more, which largely mirrors the Palestinian Nakba. Of the ones that didn't go to Israel, most went from Morocco, Algeria & Tunisia to France.

The ones that went to Israel lived in tented refugee camps, which operated until 1963, and were gradually absorbed into mainstream Israeli society. Saying "without problems" was probably incorrect but there was no help from the UN. After 1967 there was another, smaller, wave.

There are significant communities (> 30,000) in Iran & Turkey and a few thousand in Morocco. Oddly enough there are apparently a few dozen in Bahrain, who are highly regarded by the Bahrainis and one is even an MP. It's also the site of the only known synagogue on the Arabian peninsula. Just goes to show what can be achieved.

 

[supercity36]

isrealis have been allowed to get away with murder (literally), turning gaza into basiclly a ghetto from the nazi days (the irony of it). if anything we have been to good to them

 

[brass neck]

So our government has started to bow to public opinion and isn't kissing the Israeli arse QUITE so much and straight away we get this, maybe the evil bastards should stop thieving other peoples land and democratic well informed countries wouldn't be quite so disaproving.....

 

[eagle]

I can understand much of the pro Palestinian views on this thread, but would also suggest that what many of us see as Israeli excess is a natural response from people who went through the "shoah" or holocaust. The Palestinians are paying the price for the atrocious actions of the previous German generation.

As the Israelis come to terms with what happened to many of their families lets hope that the Palestinians receive the justice they are long over due.

Picking up on Prestwich blues point, It would also have been very positive if the Jews that left Arab lands and felt secure enough to not have felt the need to leave. There are differing views on the extent to which Zionists facilitated or supported this but the point remains that Jews have made a positive contribution to any society they have lived in and maybe much of the Arab world would have benefited from making staying a better option then leaving.

 

[supercity36]

I can understand much of the pro Palestinian views on this thread, but would also suggest that what many of us see as Israeli excess is a natural response from people who went through the "shoah" or holocaust. The Palestinians are paying the price for the atrocious actions of the previous German generation.

im not pro palestinian or really anti isreal, but why did they have to take anyones land they didnt have any right to.

 

[eagle]

I can understand much of the pro Palestinian views on this thread, but would also suggest that what many of us see as Israeli excess is a natural response from people who went through the "shoah" or holocaust. The Palestinians are paying the price for the atrocious actions of the previous German generation.

im not pro palestinian or really anti isreal, but why did they have to take anyones land they didnt have any right to.

I agree totally with your point and do not agree one iota with their actions, just saying there is some mitigation to why they did what they did as a result of the holocaust. Its just that the Palestinians were dispossessed to make way for a group who had suffered greatly. I don't mind if a starving person steals from me, just don't much like it if they then malign me.