ESPN writer: Mancini is not the man to deliver City's dreams

[Didsbury Dave]

I actually agree in the main.

But I'd say he's incapable of managing in England because of our culture.

Now this is a different argument and debate, altogether.

Certainly more expansive.

But the premise of some arguments is Mancini lacks passion, is not a rallying point.

I believe that accusation to be unfair in the respect I do not know for sure what other continental managers are accustomed to prior and post match.

Is Jose, once again, merely the exception to the rule?

It would be a great discussion but the usual suspects would be all over me like a rash, telling me to fuck off to Old Trafford and all that brainless shit.

But on the wider point, not many foreign managers succeed in England. Many come with great reputations and fail. Capello appears to be going down that road. Poor English is a factor for me. Also, I feel the game is so different that these guy have to change their mindsets. Im not sure it's possible to export foreign methods and tactics wholesale.

Like you I'm no expert but I get the distinct impression that many foreign players are a bit more mature and self-sufficient. A bit less arsed about going out on the piss. A bit less ego-centric and pampered.

I don't think aloofness works over here. As a nation we are naturally anti-authoritarian, a bit bitchy and quite aggressive. I think Jose knew how to harness that. I once read about him going to a charity auction with his players at Chelsea and the whole squad including him were having a few beers and a right good laugh, outdoing each other on the bids. The writer commented that the bond was clear to see. Can you see Mancini doing this?

 

[jay_mcfc]

Four thing;

1- Comparing Hughes and Mancini is like comparing Les Reid with Jose Mourinho; one has achieved as a manager and one hasn't.

2- Mancini is the victim of being the man who replaced the media darling Hughes.

3- Surely if Juventus and Milan were guilty of match-fixing then the next best team DESERVES to win the league. Had the other two played by the rules, Inter may well have won the league anyway!

4- I'm really not sure that the way we're playing at the moment is necessarily the way Mancini actually wants us to play. He's tried 2 up front a few times and it doesn't work with the players we have. He also had us playing with a bit less organisation and with more attacking intent three games on the bounce against Newcastle, Blackpool and Wolves. Yes we won two of the games but we were pretty crap in all 3 to be honest and had we been playing against better opposition we'd have been beaten. West Brom away was the perfect performance; it was strong and well drilled at the back with a lot of skill and possession of the ball and controlled attacks with a bit of flair. Now we have Kolorov back hopefully the back 5 will stay the same for the foreseeable future and maybe with a good defensive unit we can attack more without losing anything defensively. I honestly believe that Mancini will open up but only when he trusts that everyone trusts him and his tactics.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

Four thing;

1- Comparing Hughes and Mancini is like comparing Les Reid with Jose Mourinho; one has achieved as a manager and one hasn't.

2- Mancini is the victim of being the man who replaced the media darling Hughes.

3- Surely if Juventus and Milan were guilty of match-fixing then the next best team DESERVES to win the league. Had the other two played by the rules, Inter may well have won the league anyway!

4- I'm really not sure that the way we're playing at the moment is necessarily the way Mancini actually wants us to play. He's tried 2 up front a few times and it doesn't work with the players we have. He also had us playing with a bit less organisation and with more attacking intent three games on the bounce against Newcastle, Blackpool and Wolves. Yes we won two of the games but we were pretty crap in all 3 to be honest and had we been playing against better opposition we'd have been beaten. West Brom away was the perfect performance; it was strong and well drilled at the back with a lot of skill and possession of the ball and controlled attacks with a bit of flair. Now we have Kolorov back hopefully the back 5 will stay the same for the foreseeable future and maybe with a good defensive unit we can attack more without losing anything defensively. I honestly believe that Mancini will open up but only when he trusts that everyone trusts him and his tactics.

Fair play. At least your counter is a bit more that the word "bullshit".

 

[SWP's back]

I said I agree with most of it, not all of it. Some truth in the Balotelli comment but hopefully it's an over-exageration. But a crashed car, late for training, red and yellow card and two goals in 3 appearances, coupled with his history, also mean it's not a total lie. No idea about Tevez, I was in the stadium, didn't really see much. Johnson did appear to hint he'd like a move so I can see why he's written it.

The important points were Mancini's history, tactics and player management, most of which I largely agree with.

He makes an interesting point about him flouncing down the tunnel, something I have heard nothing about.

At the Derby match I was in the players lounge. Mancini was in his office both immedaitely before and after the game. Also, with a few minutes left v Birmingham, he gave up and sat down on the bench. Imagine a player giving up at 0-0.

Pretending that the maneger gave up is poor even by your standards.

he doesn't have standards when it comes to Mancini bashing.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

Pretending that the maneger gave up is poor even by your standards.

he doesn't have standards when it comes to Mancini bashing.

Insightful, well thought out counter arguments there, chaps.

 

[SWP's back]

Now this is a different argument and debate, altogether.

Certainly more expansive.

But the premise of some arguments is Mancini lacks passion, is not a rallying point.

I believe that accusation to be unfair in the respect I do not know for sure what other continental managers are accustomed to prior and post match.

Is Jose, once again, merely the exception to the rule?

It would be a great discussion but the usual suspects would be all over me like a rash, telling me to fuck off to Old Trafford and all that brainless shit.

But on the wider point, not many foreign managers succeed in England. Many come with great reputations and fail. Capello appears to be going down that road. Poor English is a factor for me. Also, I feel the game is so different that these guy have to change their mindsets. Im not sure it's possible to export foreign methods and tactics wholesale.

Like you I'm no expert but I get the distinct impression that many foreign players are a bit more mature and self-sufficient. A bit less arsed about going out on the piss. A bit less ego-centric and pampered.

I don't think aloofness works over here. As a nation we are naturally anti-authoritarian, a bit bitchy and quite aggressive. I think Jose knew how to harness that. I once read about him going to a charity auction with his players at Chelsea and the whole squad including him were having a few beers and a right good laugh, outdoing each other on the bids. The writer commented that the bond was clear to see. Can you see Mancini doing this?

Now I have never told you to do such things, nor have a labelled you a rag. I have said those that don't get behind the team and boo etc are shit supporters and I stand by that (though that doesn't necessarily include you).

But you have ignored my pertinant points earlier in this thread such as Fergie sitting down at Villa etc.

 

[bluefandk]

he doesn't have standards when it comes to Mancini bashing.

Insightful, well thought out counter arguments there, chaps.

Put forward a coherent argument and I will counter it.

 

[flb]

DD,do you think things will improve on the pitch when the dreggs of Hughes team are eventually peddled form the club in January and in the close season?

Im just picking up on your point about wether Mancini can embrace the english culture as you call it.

We all know who the players are who he doesnt rate (probably some we dont know about aswell).I firmly believe football on the pitch will improve drastically once he has won the dressing room war.

 

[felixbg]

theres so much wrong with that article, anyone genuinly agreeing with that shite shouldn't even try and claim to be behind the club. more media lies, it's seriously getting boring now.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

theres so much wrong with that article, anyone genuinly agreeing with that shite shouldn't even try and claim to be behind the club. more media lies, it's seriously getting boring now.

I agree with most of it. Are you telling me I am not a true fan?