Etihad Campus, Stadium and Collar Site Development Thread

[Marvin]

Re: Etihad Campus, Stadium and Collar Site Development Threa

It does make you wonder when you read rubbish like that eh ?

Our owner has spent how much on this "white elephant" ?

Marvin you can do better than that.

Call it what you like, but Chelsea and MCFC have been pumping major investment into the academies for years and I can't think of one player who has come through - whereas the much more impoverished Platt Lane used to develop loads of players for City in the 80s. I grew up watching them, I'm sure you did too.

There is a tension between hundreds of Million Pounds of investment into the top playing squads, the money that comes from success in competitions like the Premier League and the Champions League and in giving time to develop young players in the first team.

City and especially Chelsea have been investing hundreds of Millions in their academies for years. This is Not a new development. And it has worked to the extent that Chelsea have won the FA Youth Cup 3 times in the last years and are the Champions of the U21s league. I remember City playing them in the USA in a friendly and Chelsea were talking about the young players that they had high hopes for, and what happened to them.....they took a back seat as Fabregas, Costa, Luiz etc arrived. City will become the Premier Academy in the country, but we'll still have to move those players from the academy to the 1st team, and neither MCFC nor Chelsea have managed it to date. You look at the young players who have come through in the Premiership.....they are at clubs like Everton, Villa and Southampton, clubs which don't have huge investments in first team squads.

I love the infrastructure development at City, but I am a cynic when it comes to the academy. State of the art technology and facilities are all well and good, but athletes and top footballers develop out of poverty, lack of opportunity, and most of all inner drive and because someone when they are ready to take the final step was ready to give them the opportunity - it will be very very difficult for any coach of any top Premiership club to give their academy players a sustained chance. And that has been the over-riding message from the last 10 years of Premiership football, an era when the top clubs have invested hundreds of Millions in academies and almost without exceptional the best talent has come through at the lower ranked Premiership clubs, or in lower leagues. The reasons are obvious and Compelling.

Footballers develop in Africa, and South America in part because they don't have big footballs or boots, and have to play with smaller balls on bad surfaces, and its the nly way these kids have a future. For the same reason its why boxing is dominated by black Americans, and sprinting by Jamaican and the West Indies. I don't see a problem in taking the best players that are produced from these environments, but you've got to be realistic about their chances of progression into the first team, and you've only got to look back at what's been happening in youth football at Premiership clubs to see that the academys have been a spectacular flop to date.

About 18 months ago, City and Chelsea were both facing UEFA investigations for poaching the best players from French clubs. Utd have been doing it for years to. Where are these players now? I am afraid that the best young payers will continue to come out of Africa, into the French and Portuguese teams that don't have huge playing budgets and then Chelsea, City, Utd etc will then come along with their cheque books and buy them whilst people wonder why is it that the foreign clubs can develop young kids and the Premiership does not. it's obvious. They have to, and the Premiership has much more money, and if you think about it there's a big conflict between the two that no one has solved to date. The possible exception is Barcelona, but they are in a unique position that's very unlikely to happen here in the Premiership. There two teams have total dominance and can introduce players with less pressure and alongside world class players who can carry them through against weak opposition. The Premiership is a totally different environment.

I bet if you talk to players like Micah Richards, Kieran Trippier and the staff who have been involved at City's academy they will recognise the difficulty of giving the kids a chance when they need it. Suarez had to leave. Pozo is now 18. He should be playing to develop. This will always happen. But fans and everyone at City want to win the next game so what do you do

Your first para says it all mate - the quality required now compared to the 80s is very different. The players that came through from Platt Lane wouldn't have got in other top squads. It's just that we couldn't afford to buy. We are now getting the best kids but it takes a few years & we've only been at the top for 5 years. Watch this space. In the next 2 years we'll have a stream of graduates from the Acadamy - many British

OK. Which clubs have been dominating Youth Team football for the last 10 years: Chelsea, Arsenal and Man Utd, and City have improved too. They win the competitions at that level. They have the best players. But none come through. All that will happen with this additional investment (remember City have been investing heavily and controversially for years) is that there will be a further shift towards City. Great. But if Chelsea and all the other top Premiership clubs have spectacularly failed when their young teams won everything in sight, why should City succeed when we have a even bigger 1st team playing budget than they do?

 

[HelloCity]

Re: Etihad Campus, Stadium and Collar Site Development Threa

Nothing gets me more motivated and upbeat than a Marvin post.

:)

 

[Marvin]

Re: Etihad Campus, Stadium and Collar Site Development Threa

Nothing gets me more motivated and upbeat than a Marvin post.

:)

Good

Joey Barton, Onouha, Sturridge, Michael Johnson, Micah wee the last round of players that came through but what has happened since?

Do you think City have stopped working at academy level?

What has changed is that the first team is competing at a much higher level, and the 1st team pool and manager are operating at much higher pressures, and if no one is prepared to acknowledge what has happened and the difficulty in bridging the gap then its them and not me who should be taking the pills.

Which country agonises ad spends millions on developing players and spectacularly fails year after year? The one whose kids are comfortable and the one where Premiership first team squads are packed with expensive signings.

 

[pirate]

Re: Etihad Campus, Stadium and Collar Site Development Threa

Call it what you like, but Chelsea and MCFC have been pumping major investment into the academies for years and I can't think of one player who has come through - whereas the much more impoverished Platt Lane used to develop loads of players for City in the 80s. I grew up watching them, I'm sure you did too.

There is a tension between hundreds of Million Pounds of investment into the top playing squads, the money that comes from success in competitions like the Premier League and the Champions League and in giving time to develop young players in the first team.

City and especially Chelsea have been investing hundreds of Millions in their academies for years. This is Not a new development. And it has worked to the extent that Chelsea have won the FA Youth Cup 3 times in the last years and are the Champions of the U21s league. I remember City playing them in the USA in a friendly and Chelsea were talking about the young players that they had high hopes for, and what happened to them.....they took a back seat as Fabregas, Costa, Luiz etc arrived. City will become the Premier Academy in the country, but we'll still have to move those players from the academy to the 1st team, and neither MCFC nor Chelsea have managed it to date. You look at the young players who have come through in the Premiership.....they are at clubs like Everton, Villa and Southampton, clubs which don't have huge investments in first team squads.

I love the infrastructure development at City, but I am a cynic when it comes to the academy. State of the art technology and facilities are all well and good, but athletes and top footballers develop out of poverty, lack of opportunity, and most of all inner drive and because someone when they are ready to take the final step was ready to give them the opportunity - it will be very very difficult for any coach of any top Premiership club to give their academy players a sustained chance. And that has been the over-riding message from the last 10 years of Premiership football, an era when the top clubs have invested hundreds of Millions in academies and almost without exceptional the best talent has come through at the lower ranked Premiership clubs, or in lower leagues. The reasons are obvious and Compelling.

Footballers develop in Africa, and South America in part because they don't have big footballs or boots, and have to play with smaller balls on bad surfaces, and its the nly way these kids have a future. For the same reason its why boxing is dominated by black Americans, and sprinting by Jamaican and the West Indies. I don't see a problem in taking the best players that are produced from these environments, but you've got to be realistic about their chances of progression into the first team, and you've only got to look back at what's been happening in youth football at Premiership clubs to see that the academys have been a spectacular flop to date.

About 18 months ago, City and Chelsea were both facing UEFA investigations for poaching the best players from French clubs. Utd have been doing it for years to. Where are these players now? I am afraid that the best young payers will continue to come out of Africa, into the French and Portuguese teams that don't have huge playing budgets and then Chelsea, City, Utd etc will then come along with their cheque books and buy them whilst people wonder why is it that the foreign clubs can develop young kids and the Premiership does not. it's obvious. They have to, and the Premiership has much more money, and if you think about it there's a big conflict between the two that no one has solved to date. The possible exception is Barcelona, but they are in a unique position that's very unlikely to happen here in the Premiership. There two teams have total dominance and can introduce players with less pressure and alongside world class players who can carry them through against weak opposition. The Premiership is a totally different environment.

I bet if you talk to players like Micah Richards, Kieran Trippier and the staff who have been involved at City's academy they will recognise the difficulty of giving the kids a chance when they need it. Suarez had to leave. Pozo is now 18. He should be playing to develop. This will always happen. But fans and everyone at City want to win the next game so what do you do

Your first para says it all mate - the quality required now compared to the 80s is very different. The players that came through from Platt Lane wouldn't have got in other top squads. It's just that we couldn't afford to buy. We are now getting the best kids but it takes a few years & we've only been at the top for 5 years. Watch this space. In the next 2 years we'll have a stream of graduates from the Acadamy - many British

OK. Which clubs have been dominating Youth Team football for the last 10 years: Chelsea, Arsenal and Man Utd, and City have improved too. They win the competitions at that level. They have the best players. But none come through. All that will happen with this additional investment (remember City have been investing heavily and controversially for years) is that there will be a further shift towards City. Great. But if Chelsea and all the other top Premiership clubs have spectacularly failed when their young teams won everything in sight, why should City succeed when we have a even bigger 1st team playing budget than they do?

i know people laughed when we first used the term, but the answer is the holistic approach.

our youth teams all play the same way as the first team, going forward it should be easier to move up and move in.

 

[pirate]

Re: Etihad Campus, Stadium and Collar Site Development Threa

Nothing gets me more motivated and upbeat than a Marvin post.

:)

Good

Joey Barton, Onouha, Sturridge, Michael Johnson, Micah wee the last round of players that came through but what has happened since?

Do you think City have stopped working at academy level?

What has changed is that the first team is competing at a much higher level, and the 1st team pool and manager are operating at much higher pressures, and if no one is prepared to acknowledge what has happened and the difficulty in bridging the gap then its them and not me who should be taking the pills.

Which country agonises ad spends millions on developing players and spectacularly fails year after year? The one whose kids are comfortable and the one where Premiership first team squads are packed with expensive signings.

you missed out boyata, he played afull 90 in our last game

 

[squirtyflower]

Re: Etihad Campus, Stadium and Collar Site Development Threa

Call it what you like, but Chelsea and MCFC have been pumping major investment into the academies for years and I can't think of one player who has come through - whereas the much more impoverished Platt Lane used to develop loads of players for City in the 80s. I grew up watching them, I'm sure you did too.

There is a tension between hundreds of Million Pounds of investment into the top playing squads, the money that comes from success in competitions like the Premier League and the Champions League and in giving time to develop young players in the first team.

City and especially Chelsea have been investing hundreds of Millions in their academies for years. This is Not a new development. And it has worked to the extent that Chelsea have won the FA Youth Cup 3 times in the last years and are the Champions of the U21s league. I remember City playing them in the USA in a friendly and Chelsea were talking about the young players that they had high hopes for, and what happened to them.....they took a back seat as Fabregas, Costa, Luiz etc arrived. City will become the Premier Academy in the country, but we'll still have to move those players from the academy to the 1st team, and neither MCFC nor Chelsea have managed it to date. You look at the young players who have come through in the Premiership.....they are at clubs like Everton, Villa and Southampton, clubs which don't have huge investments in first team squads.

I love the infrastructure development at City, but I am a cynic when it comes to the academy. State of the art technology and facilities are all well and good, but athletes and top footballers develop out of poverty, lack of opportunity, and most of all inner drive and because someone when they are ready to take the final step was ready to give them the opportunity - it will be very very difficult for any coach of any top Premiership club to give their academy players a sustained chance. And that has been the over-riding message from the last 10 years of Premiership football, an era when the top clubs have invested hundreds of Millions in academies and almost without exceptional the best talent has come through at the lower ranked Premiership clubs, or in lower leagues. The reasons are obvious and Compelling.

Footballers develop in Africa, and South America in part because they don't have big footballs or boots, and have to play with smaller balls on bad surfaces, and its the nly way these kids have a future. For the same reason its why boxing is dominated by black Americans, and sprinting by Jamaican and the West Indies. I don't see a problem in taking the best players that are produced from these environments, but you've got to be realistic about their chances of progression into the first team, and you've only got to look back at what's been happening in youth football at Premiership clubs to see that the academys have been a spectacular flop to date.

About 18 months ago, City and Chelsea were both facing UEFA investigations for poaching the best players from French clubs. Utd have been doing it for years to. Where are these players now? I am afraid that the best young payers will continue to come out of Africa, into the French and Portuguese teams that don't have huge playing budgets and then Chelsea, City, Utd etc will then come along with their cheque books and buy them whilst people wonder why is it that the foreign clubs can develop young kids and the Premiership does not. it's obvious. They have to, and the Premiership has much more money, and if you think about it there's a big conflict between the two that no one has solved to date. The possible exception is Barcelona, but they are in a unique position that's very unlikely to happen here in the Premiership. There two teams have total dominance and can introduce players with less pressure and alongside world class players who can carry them through against weak opposition. The Premiership is a totally different environment.

I bet if you talk to players like Micah Richards, Kieran Trippier and the staff who have been involved at City's academy they will recognise the difficulty of giving the kids a chance when they need it. Suarez had to leave. Pozo is now 18. He should be playing to develop. This will always happen. But fans and everyone at City want to win the next game so what do you do

Your first para says it all mate - the quality required now compared to the 80s is very different. The players that came through from Platt Lane wouldn't have got in other top squads. It's just that we couldn't afford to buy. We are now getting the best kids but it takes a few years & we've only been at the top for 5 years. Watch this space. In the next 2 years we'll have a stream of graduates from the Acadamy - many British

OK. Which clubs have been dominating Youth Team football for the last 10 years: Chelsea, Arsenal and Man Utd, and City have improved too. They win the competitions at that level. They have the best players. But none come through. All that will happen with this additional investment (remember City have been investing heavily and controversially for years) is that there will be a further shift towards City. Great. But if Chelsea and all the other top Premiership clubs have spectacularly failed when their young teams won everything in sight, why should City succeed when we have a even bigger 1st team playing budget than they do?

Investing heavily (tick) and controversially

What a really pathetic thing to post, what on earth is controversial about our spending on the Academy?
You really make me wonder

 

[Marvin]

Re: Etihad Campus, Stadium and Collar Site Development Threa

Kevin Keegan tried that.

Every conceivable management and sporting angle will have been tried at youth team level as football is big business nowadays. It just doesn't make sense that City will suddenly hit on a winning formula. It's the same staff and the same ideas and systems that circulate.

Probably I have gone over the top in my criticism, but then only in reaction to all the over the top expectations of what can be expected from the new development.

 

[without a dream]

Re: Etihad Campus, Stadium and Collar Site Development Threa

We sold Huws for over 3m last season,many more will bring in similar money over next few seasons and recently we are beginning to see the fruits of our labour in the form of the Denayer,Lopes,Pozo,Fofana,Barker and Angelino - all players that have the potential to regularly feature for us.

The odds of producing a first team player are increasing rapidly,we are still in our infancy regarding such but I am very optimistic about this side of our club.

A white elephant? utter nonsense.

He's worded it too strongly but he's right that these players need to be getting time on the pitch. The rags did it for years with utter dross who then got sold for millions because they'd played for the scum. We've got a heap of really talented youngsters now and they need pitch time, either so we can see if they're good enough or to boost their sale value and give them some hope that they can actually make it at City if they work hard.

 

[SilverFox2]

Re: Etihad Campus, Stadium and Collar Site Development Threa

Irrespective of the odds associated with an academy player graduating to 1st team status surely ADUG have been correct to invest in the magnificent new facilities.
Maybe it will not have the effect we would like but it is likely to increase our chances.

The payback is the selling of extremely good players to others whilst continuing to filter for that elusive talent. Our scouting team is surely key to evaluate initial capabilities.

The advantage of academy trained players is that they can be assessed before purchase regarding their ability to graduate and integrate into the first team rather than assuming that their apparent talent in other teams is transferable.

The ability to have a crop of young academy players capable of playing PL for a generation has disappeared as MUFC have discovered with Fergies legacy to Moyes whilst trying to emulate the 92 era.

 

[supercity88]

Re: Etihad Campus, Stadium and Collar Site Development Threa

In regards to our academy, I think our annual financial report gives a clear message of our aim to be self-sustaining. That means the academy now has two purposes. Firstly to develop players who can make an impact in our first team and secondly to generate an income from players that will help increase the number of assets at the club and generate income for other transfers.

You can't compare City with Chelsea. We've invested peanuts in our academy compared to most clubs until very recently in our history. The players that have come through our academy have gone on to have decent careers but you can't see them at the top level and they never became quality internationals either. The likes of Richards, Onuoha, Wright-Phillips in recent time have been quality players on their day but the academy hasn't been that successful and going back to the 90s when we had a lot of academy players in our side, I'd say the standard of football in general at the top level is a million miles ahead of that now.

I think it will be two seasons before we see the academy fulfilling its potential. There are a lot of players who won't go on to have careers with City and won't fetch much of an income for us. These are players who were with us before the takeover and before we could attract such quality young players. Players who are currently u21 will be the ones who over the next two years may make an impact. We've seen Chelsea buy players at first team level, youth level and around the 21 mark when they should really be stepping up. We've seen no one progress. They've followed a Real Madrid style of buying instant ready made players, and whilst Mourinho harps on about it being a young team establishing itself, big money has gone on the players at that club.

There's no doubt in my mind we will follow Barcelona's model of recruitment. Give youth a chance because if the academy does its job the players will be good enough. Sell younger players for decent fees - they will attract a lot of interest as has been seen over the years with Pique, Fabregas, Bojan, Alcantara etc - and if we ensure players aren't poached early then we can generate an income for buying that one world class player a season as Barca have done in recent times.