Etihad Campus, Stadium Development and Collar Site

[WNRH]

Re: Etihad Campus & potential new stadium

The lease on the Stadium is the balance of 250 years, it must be assumed that a new structure would be required at least once in this timeframe.
We just want the new structure now and are prepared to pay for it - where is the problem?

The problem is with MCC. They receive £3m a year for doing absolutely nothing and £3m x 250 years = far more than we would pay to buy the stadium. They have essentially set themselves up on the gravy train for the next 10 generations. If we build a new stadium, we would most probably build it on land that we - not they - own. Not only will they not get any money from that, they lose their £3m stipend AND they are left nursing a stadium that no-one will want.

It's a bit like owning two houses - you live in one, some other guy rents the other one from you, and has an agreement that he'll rent it for more than it's worth for the rest of his life. One day in the middle of the financial crisis he approaches you and says he's come into a bit of money and wants to build his own house. Problem is you are now hard on cash yourself and can't afford your own house, and you know no-one else can afford your rent. Why wouldn't you force him to keep paying your rent at the cost of his own dreams?

Is that £3m fee set for the remainder of the lease? even in 230 years when £3m is a tenner in today's money?

 

[Metal Biker]

Re: Etihad Campus & potential new stadium

The lease on the Stadium is the balance of 250 years, it must be assumed that a new structure would be required at least once in this timeframe.
We just want the new structure now and are prepared to pay for it - where is the problem?

The problem is with MCC. They receive £3m a year for doing absolutely nothing and £3m x 250 years = far more than we would pay to buy the stadium. They have essentially set themselves up on the gravy train for the next 10 generations. If we build a new stadium, we would most probably build it on land that we - not they - own. Not only will they not get any money from that, they lose their £3m stipend AND they are left nursing a stadium that no-one will want.

It's a bit like owning two houses - you live in one, some other guy rents the other one from you, and has an agreement that he'll rent it for more than it's worth for the rest of his life. One day in the middle of the financial crisis he approaches you and says he's come into a bit of money and wants to build his own house. Problem is you are now hard on cash yourself and can't afford your own house, and you know no-one else can afford your rent. Why wouldn't you force him to keep paying your rent at the cost of his own dreams?

Is that £3m fee set for the remainder of the lease? even in 230 years when £3m is a tenner in today's money?

Was the stadium even designed to last 250 years?

 

[Falastur]

Re: Etihad Campus & potential new stadium

Analogy - you let a three bedroom bog standard house, your tenant says "I want to knock it down and build a 5 bedroom mansion with a swimming pool, cinema and landscaped garden, you and your finance company keep all existing ownership rights, I'll keep paying the rent and these mods won't cost you a penny"
Seriously, you'd say no?

That's the problem though. That's not how it would go. Either we would build a new stadium - in which case Eastlands would be the Council's white elephant to sort out and we would stop paying the rent - or we would knock down Eastlands and build a new stadium - in this situation, rather than paying for the conversion and continuing to pay rent, the board would 100% want to buy the stadium first, there's no way that they would want to allow the Council to retain an interest in something wholly theirs, and the Council would want a larger slice of the pie too. The Council would get a decent-sized down-payment, but they'd lose their annuity, and as another user reminded me, they are obliged to repay Sport England the cost of the stadium if they agree to its sale, so they wouldn't even get much of that money. The Council wouldn't be happy about this one either as they wouldn't be receiving any money during the period the stadium is being rebuilt.

Of the two, City would want to build on their own land and cut the Council loose anyway - I mean, for a start it saves several hundred million in buying the land first...

Is that £3m fee set for the remainder of the lease? even in 230 years when £3m is a tenner in today's money?

I never read of any extension or renegotiation clauses, nor of an expiry date on the agreement. But other peoples' suggestions that there could be an agreement to reevaluate the deal further down the line is probably sensible.

I'm not an expert on law or this deal. I just read an awful lot of media stories.

 

[DontLookBackInAnger]

Re: Etihad Campus & potential new stadium

Seeing as the Stadium isn't built to last 250 years and while we might have a 250year lease, I can't believe that we will be paying that long and/or their aren't opt out points built in.

 

[Neville Kneville]

Re: Etihad Campus & potential new stadium

Please can someone just sum up for me, why is there now talk about a new stadium? What have i missed?

It's just chat mate. Hypothetical stuff as to what would happen if we decided to build a new ground.

Imo, we would just sweeten the council with another project & they would be happy. They don't want to tread on Sheikh Mansour's toes as he is going to be bringing big money into the town for many years.

 

[BlueAnorak]

Re: Etihad Campus & potential new stadium

City have no intention of building a new stadium, the plan was & is to develop the Etihad to three levels all the way around & fill in the corners. Go back to the original thread & it's first dozen pages, nothing has changed. City have a great deal so there is no need to break away from that, it'd cost us more annually to build than develop & stay where we are according to the powers that be.

You can't easily fill in the corners with the current roof structure. The ground anchor cables that support the tension ring exit through the corners smack bang where the the lower part of a third tier would be. The corners also let enough natural daylight through the open shutters (closed on match days) to keep the grass green.

 

[1.618034]

Re: Etihad Campus & potential new stadium

City have no intention of building a new stadium, the plan was & is to develop the Etihad to three levels all the way around & fill in the corners. Go back to the original thread & it's first dozen pages, nothing has changed. City have a great deal so there is no need to break away from that, it'd cost us more annually to build than develop & stay where we are according to the powers that be.

You can't easily fill in the corners with the current roof structure. The ground anchor cables that support the tension ring exit through the corners smack bang where the the lower part of a third tier would be. The corners also let enough natural daylight through the open shutters (closed on match days) to keep the grass green.

I thought the shutters were to let natural air circulation in, to make the grass grow stronger...?

Either way they're important for the stadium climate and consideration is needed...

You just wonder what the club are really thinking/planning, if anything? The thing with the absolute silence on expansion/building is that it's deafening! But surely if there were no actual plans, then there'd be talk from somewhere around the club about it something needing to be done about it... But nothing. Logic/and ITK info says they're planning something but what is anyone's guess...?
Mine is expansion, but that's based on me thinking that where the stadium is now is the optimum spot on the "campus" and that the roof issue seems, to me anyway, as solvable. Oh and I think there is a fair bit of politics involved in usurping the CoMS/Etihad. The only other way would be demolition and a swamp-share, which seems highly unlikely... but if they're short of cash I'm sure the Glazers wouldn't turn up their ample noses. Now that would be something, especially IF we're the dominant force at that time. What goes around and all that!

It's a good conundrum to ponder whilst the Academy is being built... Which proves these guys really are putting their money where their mouths are, so we're pretty certain that something is going to happen.




Who would have thought, in the first years of the twenty-first century, that across the gulf of Arabia, owners far greater than yanks, enabled this City's Blue Moon to rise....?

-)

 

[The Ox]

Re: Etihad Campus & potential new stadium

I think the idea of building a new stadium is nonsense, expansion will be the way to go.
The club are spending approx £150m on the Campus with a direct eyeline to the stadium and a shiny new bridge linking it together. I think that we are doing our owners a disservice to imagine that they wouldn't plan these things for the long term. Not a chance would a state of the art bridge be built that didn't lead anywhere near the actual ground, however, what I would say is that when the ground is expanded it is likely that a new players entrance will be built into the design for ease of access looking at the plans at where the bridge will join the stadium. A capacity of 60k will be manageable with our fan base and it is likely to be the additional tier in North and South stand as has already been pointed out.

 

[ste.sully]

Re: Etihad Campus & potential new stadium

City have no intention of building a new stadium, the plan was & is to develop the Etihad to three levels all the way around & fill in the corners. Go back to the original thread & it's first dozen pages, nothing has changed. City have a great deal so there is no need to break away from that, it'd cost us more annually to build than develop & stay where we are according to the powers that be.

You can't easily fill in the corners with the current roof structure. The ground anchor cables that support the tension ring exit through the corners smack bang where the the lower part of a third tier would be. The corners also let enough natural daylight through the open shutters (closed on match days) to keep the grass green.

I thought the shutters were to let natural air circulation in, to make the grass grow stronger...?

The louvres at each corner of the stadium could be easily removed without much detriment to the pitch. I don't think they do too much to be honest, although I can see why they were added due to the pitch being built into the ground as such like a Roman amphitheatre and why the stadium appears taller on the inside. The luminescent lining on the roof of the stadium which allows more sunlight to permeate the pitch is far more important than the louvres.

 

[Petrovs left peg]

Re: Etihad Campus & potential new stadium

I think the excitement at the thought of a new stadium is leading to more hope than a real belief. There is also the feeling on here that expansion is the poorer relation of the two options - be assured, it wont be just any old run of the mill expansion, it will be jaw dropping!