EU Referendum Thread

[whp.blue]

I will definitely be voting out
Some EU Countries like Norway have already expressed doubts about the EU especially if we leave

We can soon agree trading agreements.
No one ever voted for a Federal Europe but that is where we are heading and all the In voters seem to forget that our votes are watered down in a Federal Europe.

If Europe veers to the left or right we as Individuals would find it hard to alter it and if we do vote IN it isn't just a vote to keep the Status Quo and stay in it will be seen and taken as a green light to devolve even more powers to Europe.
And once we move deeper into that it will in future be so much harder if not totally impossible to get out
this is a once in a life time chance.

Like the Jocks who are regretting their No vote already we need to seize the opportunity and get out while we can.

If we leave the EU will be a shambles within the EU and other countries will speak out about leaving and it will bring about the march to Federalism. The shambles will also mean the EU will not be able to afford to alienate or ostracise the UK so all the doom and gloom threats will not come about.

Norway voted against being in the EU twice and id still not a member, I'm not sure you are very informed on the subject.

Do you not remember Norway - No Way?

To be fair I wasn't sure when I wrote it
It was on the radio last night in the car and a Scandinavian woman was being interviewed She mustn't have been Norwegian but she was from the National tv saying they understood the British point about
Net immigration being very high and the EU had to act and it would be a disaster for the EU if we left

she was in fact from the Danish State TV

 

[Corky]

Out.
We only joined it as a trading union.
It is now as much a political as well as an economic union.
We will never be committed to the former ideal, so let's leave, stop moaning about it all the time and see if we can stand on our own two feet in the world.
Succeed or fail we will undoubtedly learn something about ourselves as a nation in the process.

That was called 'Splendid Isolation' and failed 100 years ago.

 

[hilts]

Out.
We only joined it as a trading union.
It is now as much a political as well as an economic union.
We will never be committed to the former ideal, so let's leave, stop moaning about it all the time and see if we can stand on our own two feet in the world.
Succeed or fail we will undoubtedly learn something about ourselves as a nation in the process.

First time I have ever agreed with you, the campaign to stay in will be run on fear much like the Scottish vote

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Out.
We only joined it as a trading union.
It is now as much a political as well as an economic union.
We will never be committed to the former ideal, so let's leave, stop moaning about it all the time and see if we can stand on our own two feet in the world.
Succeed or fail we will undoubtedly learn something about ourselves as a nation in the process.

Sums up my position almost perfectly. The argument for closer integration has been that the single market requires financial union, which in turn requires political union. That's bollocks frankly.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Definitely voting to stay in.

I believe pulling out would be such a risky enterprise. Those who imagine it will have no meaningful impact on our trade with the remaining EU countries, and consequently our economy, are completely wrong imo. Furthermore any such ongoing trade with those countries would be contingent on us complying with all the red tape, so frequently cited by those in favour of withdrawal as a reason for leaving.

To describe leaving as anything other than a huge risk is intellectually dishonest imo.

I'm interested how you think our trade with the EU would be affected if we were to exit? Trade tariffs on UK goods? Restricted access? I'd also be interested to hear how exporters of German cars, French wine and Belgian chocolate would feel when we reciprocate. Remember we import far more from the EU than we export to it. A trade war would be hugely damaging to EU economies and just wouldn't happen. It's just a scare tactic to intimidate people to vote to stay in and if anybody is being intellectually dishonest it's people who are spreading scare stories.

If you think that Germany will just shrug their shoulders if we pull out then you are wrong. They have too much to lose to allow our exit to be painless. It may occur by stealth, rather than in the dramatic fashions to which you referred (although it may well subsequently escalate to those levels) but it simply isn't logical to suggest that our trade can just carry on as if nothing has happened.

You may think it's a price worth paying, and that's fair enough, and you may also feel that we can take the slack up elsewhere in the world, but suggesting our trade with EU countries will be unaffected simply doesn't make sense.

 

[Corky]

I will definitely be voting out
Some EU Countries like Norway have already expressed doubts about the EU especially if we leave

We can soon agree trading agreements.
No one ever voted for a Federal Europe but that is where we are heading and all the In voters seem to forget that our votes are watered down in a Federal Europe.

If Europe veers to the left or right we as Individuals would find it hard to alter it and if we do vote IN it isn't just a vote to keep the Status Quo and stay in it will be seen and taken as a green light to devolve even more powers to Europe.
And once we move deeper into that it will in future be so much harder if not totally impossible to get out
this is a once in a life time chance.

Like the Jocks who are regretting their No vote already we need to seize the opportunity and get out while we can.

If we leave the EU will be a shambles within the EU and other countries will speak out about leaving and it will bring about the march to Federalism. The shambles will also mean the EU will not be able to afford to alienate or ostracise the UK so all the doom and gloom threats will not come about.

Norway voted against being in the EU twice and id still not a member, I'm not sure you are very informed on the subject.

Do you not remember Norway - No Way?

To be fair I wasn't sure when I wrote it
It was on the radio last night in the car and a Scandinavian woman was being interviewed She mustn't have been Norwegian but she was from the National tv saying they understood the British point about
Net immigration being very high and the EU had to act and it would be a disaster for the EU if we left

I agree any of he big countries leaving would be very damaging, a strong EU is needed to compete against China, India, Russia and Brazil. In the same way GM is working together to benefit the sub region competing nationally.

 

[hgblue]

Definitely voting to stay in.

I believe pulling out would be such a risky enterprise. Those who imagine it will have no meaningful impact on our trade with the remaining EU countries, and consequently our economy, are completely wrong imo. Furthermore any such ongoing trade with those countries would be contingent on us complying with all the red tape, so frequently cited by those in favour of withdrawal as a reason for leaving.

To describe leaving as anything other than a huge risk is intellectually dishonest imo.

I'm interested how you think our trade with the EU would be affected if we were to exit? Trade tariffs on UK goods? Restricted access? I'd also be interested to hear how exporters of German cars, French wine and Belgian chocolate would feel when we reciprocate. Remember we import far more from the EU than we export to it. A trade war would be hugely damaging to EU economies and just wouldn't happen. It's just a scare tactic to intimidate people to vote to stay in and if anybody is being intellectually dishonest it's people who are spreading scare stories.

If you think that Germany will just shrug their shoulders if we pull out then you are wrong. They have too much to lose to allow our exit to be painless. It may occur by stealth, rather than in the dramatic fashions to which you referred (although it may well subsequently escalate to those levels) but it simply isn't logical to suggest that our trade can just carry in as if nothing has happened.

You may think it's a price worth paying, and that's fair enough, and you may also feel that we can take the slack up elsewhere in the world, but suggesting our trade with EU countries will be unaffected simply doesn't make sense.

So Germany scuppers it's own economy because it's so desperate for Britain not to prove how successful leaving the EU can be? Because they know that if they allow trade to function normally our exit would demonstrate what can be achieved? Kind of begs the question of what is the point of being in an organisation like that.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

I'm interested how you think our trade with the EU would be affected if we were to exit? Trade tariffs on UK goods? Restricted access? I'd also be interested to hear how exporters of German cars, French wine and Belgian chocolate would feel when we reciprocate. Remember we import far more from the EU than we export to it. A trade war would be hugely damaging to EU economies and just wouldn't happen. It's just a scare tactic to intimidate people to vote to stay in and if anybody is being intellectually dishonest it's people who are spreading scare stories.

If you think that Germany will just shrug their shoulders if we pull out then you are wrong. They have too much to lose to allow our exit to be painless. It may occur by stealth, rather than in the dramatic fashions to which you referred (although it may well subsequently escalate to those levels) but it simply isn't logical to suggest that our trade can just carry in as if nothing has happened.

You may think it's a price worth paying, and that's fair enough, and you may also feel that we can take the slack up elsewhere in the world, but suggesting our trade with EU countries will be unaffected simply doesn't make sense.

So Germany scuppers it's own economy because it's so desperate for Britain not to prove how successful leaving the EU can be? Because they know they if they allow trade to function normally our exit would demonstrate what can be achieved? Kind of begs the question of what is the point of being in an organisation like that.

Rather than scuppering its own economy, it will be protecting it.

Do you really think that our trade with EU countries will be completely unaffected?

 

[hgblue]

If you think that Germany will just shrug their shoulders if we pull out then you are wrong. They have too much to lose to allow our exit to be painless. It may occur by stealth, rather than in the dramatic fashions to which you referred (although it may well subsequently escalate to those levels) but it simply isn't logical to suggest that our trade can just carry in as if nothing has happened.

You may think it's a price worth paying, and that's fair enough, and you may also feel that we can take the slack up elsewhere in the world, but suggesting our trade with EU countries will be unaffected simply doesn't make sense.

So Germany scuppers it's own economy because it's so desperate for Britain not to prove how successful leaving the EU can be? Because they know they if they allow trade to function normally our exit would demonstrate what can be achieved? Kind of begs the question of what is the point of being in an organisation like that.

Rather than scuppering its own economy, it will be protecting it.

Do you really think that our trade with EU countries will be completely unaffected?

If you're the German Chancellor, I'd wish you luck going to the CEOs of BMW, Mercedes and Audi, and telling them they can no longer export to Britain, because they need to teach Britain a lesson for having the timerity to exercise it's democratic right not to be involved in a failing project of financial and political union that it's people never voted for in the first place.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

So Germany scuppers it's own economy because it's so desperate for Britain not to prove how successful leaving the EU can be? Because they know they if they allow trade to function normally our exit would demonstrate what can be achieved? Kind of begs the question of what is the point of being in an organisation like that.

Rather than scuppering its own economy, it will be protecting it.

Do you really think that our trade with EU countries will be completely unaffected?

If you're the German Chancellor, I'd wish you luck going to the CEOs of BMW, Mercedes and Audi, and telling them they can no longer export to Britain, because they need to teach Britain a lesson for having the timerity to exercise it's democratic right not to be involved in a failing project of financial and political union that it's people never voted for in the first place.

Do you really think that our trade with EU countries will be completely unaffected if we withdraw?