EU referendum

[EalingBlue2]

Not really the most important part of the In/Out debate but you're wrong.

Signing players, in some circumstances, is directly affected by politics, or more importantly labour laws.

Take Kevin De Bruyne for example, he's Belgian, Belgium are part of the EU, so when we signed him he was free to move unencumbered to the UK to work. Now, if De Bruyne had been South American, or for that matter Serbian, he wouldn';t have been free to move to the UK, he have needed to meet certain criteria (relating to international appearances and the quality of his national side) before he was granted a work permit to play for Manchester City. Now, for De Bruyne, this work permit route wouldn't have been an issue as both he and his country meet the criteria. Nolito however may not, were we to sign him. Spain certainly meet the quality criteria, but Nolito will not have played often enough for Spain over the last 2 years to qualify. So it's entirely possible that Nolito could be refused a work permit (in reality that won't happen as there will no doubt be an interim period at first however, after a period of time, that would be the scenario).

All of that is before we consider the impact on the academy. The Garcias, Brahim, Angelino, Ambrose etc would all be unable to join our academy. They'd be too young to be allowed to work here if we were outside of the EU, and they'd certainly fail to meet any criteria set for gaining a work permit at such a young age.

As I said, this is a miniscule issue in the grand scheme of things, but the fact you think being "in Europe" is the same as being "in the EU" is a little frightening given there will likely be thousands who hold a similar view and will be voting based on this completely flawed "understanding".

Football wise it won't effect the first team they are all big stars for big nations and will still come. However for youth players it will be hig there is an exemption to the usual FIFA rules of no player moving between clubs before 18, within the EU it is younger so our academy can get players like Brahim under a Fifa exemption . If we are out of the free movement of labour area that will go and that isn't something we can renegotiate . Will be good for European academies and bad for Britain as unless we but a feeder club ( which city can at least) we won't be able to bring in talented youth from Europe) that for me is the only City effect . It would lessen our financial and academy advantage in the prem.

 

[Citizen of Legoland]

I haven't found anything particularly visionary about the leave campaign. Quite the reverse actually. I don't pretend its an easy decision as it is tricky to unpick the untruths that both sides are peddling. But based on the research i have done, the pros of remaining outweigh the negatives. The pros of leave don't outweigh the negatives imo. Life will go on whatever the vote says and it will be an interesting period of political fallout whichever way it goes.

By visionary, I mean a different path to the one we are currently travelling, which is exactly what the leave campaign means. The remain campaign keep asking what this means, but I just see people who can't envisage anything different to the imperfect beast, or are frightened of it.

Personally makes no difference to me which way it goes.

 

[EalingBlue2]

Dunno. Including the Scottish Labour vote though will help, and the Scottish Conservative leader came over very well.

I was merely pointing out that saying UKIP gives Leave a haadstart can be offset by Scotland probably being Remain.

And 98.4% of lib Dems too!

 

[EalingBlue2]

Biggest shift in bet 365 betting this am in weeks - moving in to 1-8 from 1-4 yesterday and 1-2 a couple of days back. Someone putting big money down on stay.

Time to double down on Brexit at tasty odds?

 

[manctheknife]

.....and a good few scout badges prior to being thrown out for bad behaviour.....

I hear ya...I got sine die from the cubs, after one particularly nasty rumble with the ParrsWood 'woodcraft folk'.....

 

[Blue Mooner]

'Proposes' means exactly that. Just like in the UK, they gets reviewed and amended where there are strong objections.
The later stages are national government ministers review them (so our elected government have input), and then the MEPs decide whether to accept them.

The UK elected to stay in the EU in the 1970s; that was a democratic decision to accept the strictures of the time. The strictures have changed (I doubt anyone here is qualified to explain how clearly and without partisanship), and we now have another such democratic choice. It's longer than our 5 year cycle, but it's still democracy.

As for the personal question at the end on free movement, I'm not a politician, or an advisor to politicians, and therefore almost certainly do not understand the full ramifications and detail of that vote (a bit like this referendum in that matter). I didn't vote on non-manifesto laws either, but they still happen without complaint (it's the House of Lords main function is to highlight and comment on bad laws). However, each manifesto does have intentions on Europe. I assume that anyone who opposes the idea of free movement voted for UKIP at the election, and didn't at any point horsetrade that for other things they wanted. So, a bit like the Commission do with their proposals. (Yes, this is a bit reductive, but so is the point raised to me).

We don't vote on the wording of laws in the UK. We choose the people who do so.
We don't vote on the wording of laws in the EU. We elect a government and MEPs to do so.

The common market was a big picture vote since then within the EU there have been tens of thousands of laws passed around which you and I have had I imposed but which we have not voted for.

In the UK we have an election every 5 years where the parties broad proposals for government are proposed and voted on. Those who gain the most seats get to implement their legislative agenda. The laws get drafted and the put to the elected parliament for approval.

Let me try and make this easier as I don't think my point is getting across to you. Answer these two questions.

At what point do we, the EU electorate, Get to vote for which legislative programme a group of cross country MEP's are proposing and we would like to see implemented ?

How is that democratic vote of the EU population then translated into the EU commissions legislative programme for approval by the EU parliament and the EU council?

 

[bobmcfc]

Been, voted out. Took my own black pen too. No way I'm using a shitty pencil

 

[MillionMilesAway]

Let me try and make this easier as I don't think my point is getting across to you. Answer these two questions.

At what point do we, the EU electorate, Get to vote for which legislative programme a group of cross country MEP's are proposing and we would like to see implemented ?

How is that democratic vote of the EU population then translated into the EU commissions legislative programme for approval by the EU parliament and the EU council?

Sure.
We don't, but we don't vote on acts of Parliament here either or sudden rises in VAT that have been not mentioned. We elect MEPs to vote (or just not to turn up if voting UKIP) and a government to provide opinion and represent the country.
See above. Government reps to review and amend, MEPs to vote on. Just like committees and House of Commons.

The proposals that are made are based on assessment of the EU body that we are a part of, and have been part of for 40+ years. I do not believe that they are all written in Berlin or Paris without input from or consideration for the UK or anyone else, and will openly mock anyone who does.

If you don't like goernment policy, lobby your MP. The MPs lobby the government. The government lobby the EU.

 

[Tanzeylee]

Not really the most important part of the In/Out debate but you're wrong.

Signing players, in some circumstances, is directly affected by politics, or more importantly labour laws.

Take Kevin De Bruyne for example, he's Belgian, Belgium are part of the EU, so when we signed him he was free to move unencumbered to the UK to work. Now, if De Bruyne had been South American, or for that matter Serbian, he wouldn';t have been free to move to the UK, he have needed to meet certain criteria (relating to international appearances and the quality of his national side) before he was granted a work permit to play for Manchester City. Now, for De Bruyne, this work permit route wouldn't have been an issue as both he and his country meet the criteria. Nolito however may not, were we to sign him. Spain certainly meet the quality criteria, but Nolito will not have played often enough for Spain over the last 2 years to qualify. So it's entirely possible that Nolito could be refused a work permit (in reality that won't happen as there will no doubt be an interim period at first however, after a period of time, that would be the scenario).

All of that is before we consider the impact on the academy. The Garcias, Brahim, Angelino, Ambrose etc would all be unable to join our academy. They'd be too young to be allowed to work here if we were outside of the EU, and they'd certainly fail to meet any criteria set for gaining a work permit at such a young age.

As I said, this is a miniscule issue in the grand scheme of things, but the fact you think being "in Europe" is the same as being "in the EU" is a little frightening given there will likely be thousands who hold a similar view and will be voting based on this completely flawed "understanding".

Not really the most important part of the In/Out debate but you're wrong.

Signing players, in some circumstances, is directly affected by politics, or more importantly labour laws.

Take Kevin De Bruyne for example, he's Belgian, Belgium are part of the EU, so when we signed him he was free to move unencumbered to the UK to work. Now, if De Bruyne had been South American, or for that matter Serbian, he wouldn';t have been free to move to the UK, he have needed to meet certain criteria (relating to international appearances and the quality of his national side) before he was granted a work permit to play for Manchester City. Now, for De Bruyne, this work permit route wouldn't have been an issue as both he and his country meet the criteria. Nolito however may not, were we to sign him. Spain certainly meet the quality criteria, but Nolito will not have played often enough for Spain over the last 2 years to qualify. So it's entirely possible that Nolito could be refused a work permit (in reality that won't happen as there will no doubt be an interim period at first however, after a period of time, that would be the scenario).

All of that is before we consider the impact on the academy. The Garcias, Brahim, Angelino, Ambrose etc would all be unable to join our academy. They'd be too young to be allowed to work here if we were outside of the EU, and they'd certainly fail to meet any criteria set for gaining a work permit at such a young age.

As I said, this is a miniscule issue in the grand scheme of things, but the fact you think being "in Europe" is the same as being "in the EU" is a little frightening given there will likely be thousands who hold a similar view and will be voting based on this completely flawed "understanding".

Thanks for clearing that up. Tho I'm not voting on that reason anyway.

 

[cibaman]

Not sure if it's been covered already, but that outburst from Juncker was a little strange...I mean, flexing on an 'opponent' is one thing, but when you want them to go your way, why poke the hornet's nest?

It's almost as if he wanted to provoke a Leave backlash...are we seeing a covert plea to change the EU from someone inside who could never explicitly voice such thoughts for fear of reprisal on their career? An institutionalised cry for help? Are we being asked to slay the EU by the monster itself?

There's a lot of posturing and jockeying for position going on among EU leaders, a power struggle over what happens next. EU officials such as Junker are gearing up for a push for further integration (not really surprising as that would strengthen their positions). Other voices are more reflective of the increasing Euroscepticism across Europe.

I escape the Federalists will make a concerted effort to create a fiscal union for Eurozone countries. Which will fail.