EU referendum

[Metal Biker]

Because the E.U. took ECHR decisions and put them into laws or directives which then influences UK law.

But the ECHR is adopted by 49 of the 50 European nations and only 28 of those are in the EU, so how does being in the EU matter, affect or influence ECHR?

 

[EalingBlue2]

What kind of idiotic person would be stupid enough to bet money on the outcome of a public vote?

REMAINERS!!!

Someone who thought they had better information than the bookies or the public

 

[mcfc1632]

The debate on here has been far better natured than the national referendum debate (by and large). Let's keep it clean for the big day.

In or Out life goes on!

Well its OK for you to say that - I guess most posters would agree if you if you changed that :

"The debate on here has been far better natured than the national referendum debate (until Pam got involved). Let's keep it clean for the big day."

 

[YPhrunts]

But surely that can not be right, the migrants are a boon paying lots of tax while helping care for the old and sick aint they ?,

It's what remain voters are voting for more of. Sickening that our country has come to this. These people are not registered to claim benefits. They work the black economy. It's all cash in hand which is then sent out of the country so never gets recycled into anything of benefit to the indigenous population. This is probably repeated up and down the country. Near me they park on waste land and tap into the electricity and water supplies and the authorities do fuck all apart from ask them nicely to move on...no chance.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3589474/The-London-car-park-camp-homeless-migrants-live.html

 

[Pino]

The forces aligned against an independent and entrepreneurial Britain have included Wall Street, Washington, the US State Department, Brussels, NATO, Frankfurt, the Whiteminster Establishment, multinational business, the CIA, and all three sets of security services involved.

Over the last six weeks alone, those in favour of Brexit have been subjected first of all to the sort of cajoling usually reserved for kids who insist that playing with matches can be fun; then a fear campaign of such patronising idiocy it may yet do for several senior political careers. This was in turn followed by thinly veiled threats from Barack Obama, Jean-Claude Juncker, Donald Tusk and (latterly) Wolfgang Schäuble….and topped off with a naked threat from Chancellor Osborne to immediately put up taxes if we didn’t behave ourselves.

Perpetual serfdom awaits your grandkids.

 

[PragueBlue]

Lol at Brexiters making twats of themselves again. There will be rattles and dummies everywhere as the day wears on.

It won't be as funny as your tantrums after the last election though!

 

[BoyBlue_1985]

But surely that can not be right, the migrants are a boon paying lots of tax while helping care for the old and sick aint they ?,

I have been to that car park they stand outside B and Q and wait for someone to employ them for housework. I had to set up security cameras there when cars mysteriously started having there windows put through
No correlation though

 

[Blue Mooner]

Jean-Claude Juncker was voted in by the European Parliament who are in turn made up of the MEPs that you are eligible to vote for. He has a term for 5 years and then goes. He was voted in Nov 2014. Arguably more democratic than the positioning of Cameron (whose leadership of the tories was a private ballot) and who i have never voted for and yet is making decisions for me.
In fact people who want him out but live in areas that have high tory support, or even his own constituency, will never get the chance, so much for British democracy. You cannot dethrone Cameron.

van Rompuy is the ex leader of the European Council, now run by Donald Tusk. The council is separate from the EU. He had his own advisors or in British terms a cabinet. His position is also rotated hence Donald Tusk now doing the job. He was voted in by the European council who were the heads of state. Again, those heads of state are voted for by you.

So, as the democratic principle is of paramount importance to you, you can rest easy knowing that your vote is in there, somewhere, just like everyone elses, including those that have different views from you, but the principle stands.

To vote Remain is the democratic right of anyone, to call it indefensible is to argue against democracy.

Democracy as a minimum is knowing who and what policies you are voting for and being given a choice to follow the policies that most closely match your views and the chance to vote them out if they don't live up to expectations.

You can argue about fairer systems and first past the post may need reform but it still delivered a coalition government that gave some balance to our govt. Then the people chose to punish the lib dems in the following election which is the electorates choice. In a democracy of course not everyone will get their choice, but opposing views serve to temper the extremes.

I see absolutely nothing in the EU that is democratic other than voting for an MEP who has no mandate or the ability to make manifesto commitments so in essence you have no idea what you are voting for, it's a sham, a pointless exercise,

 

[KenTheLandlord]

No they are 'rotated' every five years. Without a manifesto, just an on going argument about what regulations to pass. And that passes as democracy. And the ECJ rules supreme and can push through its laws with no resistance. That's democracy too, evidently.

As is having a "vote" in an area in which you happen to live is meaningless.

There is no need for a manifesto as you put it because the format of the Parliament has been formed from the voters all over Europe, each having a vote and each having a say.
They then go through the process of deciding if something will be beneficial to all.
Sometimes it is like the 2700 times the UK has been happy with the final proposal and sometimes not, like the 40 times we have not agrees with the final proposal.

The ECJ is there to make judgements and apply its findings on law equally to all countries. It is a court of law there is no democracy in the UK courts, why would there be one there?
Why waste time having everyone sit down in their own country and come up with slightly different interpretations?
The democracy came when we signed in and agreed to the club rules.
National courts can still refer questions of EU law to the ECJ.

 

[BoyBlue_1985]

It won't be as funny as your tantrums after the last election though!

Sad i missed that and a few other posters. Especially after Charlotte Church became there leader