EU referendum

[bugsyblue]

Is the casual racism still happening in this thread? Blame the immigrants! Burn them! (Which is all very ironic since immigrants have substantially grown this economy over the last ten years)

 

[CityStu]

Is the casual racism still happening in this thread? Blame the immigrants! Burn them! (Which is all very ironic since immigrants have substantially grown this economy over the last ten years)

Please point out the racism. They may have grown the economy but they've contributed to public services being bursting at the seams and England being one of the most densely populated areas in the developed world. That's simply because they are additional people that the existing services can't cope with, not because they may look or speak differently.

 

[Malty]

Is the casual racism still happening in this thread? Blame the immigrants! Burn them! (Which is all very ironic since immigrants have substantially grown this economy over the last ten years)

We just want OUR country back. Not racism FFS ! it is basically kill or be killed.. the countries resources are dying and can't sustain the demand. If we went to their countries we wouldn't get treated half as good as they do over here..

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...lice-officer-deal-exclusively-foreigners.html

Boston is getting it's own immigrant police officers FFS to deal with the Polish there ! we are now getting towns and cities which will be turning into immigrant Utopias ! but let's continue to bury our heads in the sand eh..

We are not saying all immigrants are bad, but like Farage has been saying for years but people dismiss his ramblings as a maniac, it is the sheer number which will kill Britain..

 

[adrianr]

Is the casual racism still happening in this thread? Blame the immigrants! Burn them! (Which is all very ironic since immigrants have substantially grown this economy over the last ten years)

I hope you're not insinuating that any discussion of the legitimate downsides of immigration are racist?

 

[Malty]

Vinnie Jones thinks immigration has ruined Britain. Is that why he lives in LA?

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/shortcuts/2013/sep/03/vinnie-jones-immigration-ruined-britain

"To me, England is past its sell-by date," Jones has just told the Radio Times. "It's not the country I grew up in. It's a European country now. If someone blindfolded you and put you on a plane in LA, and you landed at Heathrow and they took it off, you wouldn't have a clue where you were. I just think we should get our own house in order before we open our doors. It's mind-boggling to me."

 

[bugsyblue]

We just want OUR country back. Not racism FFS ! it is basically kill or be killed.. the countries resources are dying and can't sustain the demand. If we went to their countries we wouldn't get treated half as good as they do over here..

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...lice-officer-deal-exclusively-foreigners.html

Boston is getting it's own immigrant police officers FFS to deal with the Polish there ! we are now getting towns and cities which will be turning into immigrant Utopias ! but let's continue to bury our heads in the sand eh..

We are not saying all immigrants are bad, but like Farage has been saying for years but people dismiss his ramblings as a maniac, it is the sheer number which will kill Britain..

FFS.

 

[bugsyblue]

Please point out the racism. They may have grown the economy but they've contributed to public services being bursting at the seams and England being one of the most densely populated areas in the developed world. That's simply because they are additional people that the existing services can't cope with, not because they may look or speak differently.

Show me stats that prove England is one of the most densely populated areas in the developed world? And I'm not objecting to it - I live in London and trust me this place feels very overpopulated! - I'm just keen to see if that's actually accurate. Now in terms of services, if immigrants are growing the economy, which they have at a serious rate, then services being stretched are because money from the additional taxation aren't been properly reinvested in the economy. In theory (and I accept practice isn't as simple as this) but the more people living and working here the more taxation the more public services budgets should increase. But we all know governments (certainly the current one) aren't doing this! In fact the opposite is happening when you look at services like the NHS so is it any wonder it takes over a week just to get a GP appointment! It's really not as simple as blaming immigrants/migrants.

 

[CityStu]

Show me stats that prove England is one of the most densely populated areas in the developed world? And I'm not objecting to it - I live in London and trust me this place feels very overpopulated! - I'm just keen to see if that's actually accurate. Now in terms of services, if immigrants are growing the economy, which they have at a serious rate, then services being stretched are because money from the additional taxation aren't been properly reinvested in the economy. In theory (and I accept practice isn't as simple as this) but the more people living and working here the more taxation the more public services budgets should increase. But we all know governments (certainly the current one) aren't doing this! In fact the opposite is happening when you look at services like the NHS so is it any wonder it takes over a week just to get a GP appointment! It's really not as simple as blaming immigrants/migrants.

Check the third paragraph of the second post (its by me) on page 212 for some comparisons to other EU countries. In short, Germany could swallow England's population and still be considerably less crowded than the UK is now.

With the native population we can plan reasonably well. If a child is born then you know you will need a school place for that child in 4 years time. You can apply similar logic to the age of the population, birth rates and so on to get a good impression of how many doctors, hospitals, houses, etc. you'll require.

Uncontrolled immigration changes all of that. Someone can turn up from Poland tomorrow who immediately needs a house (already a shortage), his 2 kids need a school (already oversubscribed), his pregnant wife needs prenatal care and he's brought his mum with him who suffers from alzheimer's. Even if the guy's on a very good salary, he hasn't paid into the system before arrival yet he needs an awful lot of services on arrival.

It's an extreme example but the point is you can't plan for it and what government would? Would you vote for a party that said due to future immigration we're going to have to raise taxes considerably to add to education and health services, such that they are not worse in 5 years than they are now (not improved)? Or would you rather a party that said that the level of immigration was unsustainable so we at least have to control it in some capacity?

I know we have an ageing population, but I'm pretty sure the solution isn't to throw more and more people into the pot (who will one day become old themselves).

 

[jimbopm]

Ah well if Vinnie Jones says it's bad it must be bad.

 

[hgblue]

They are not my figures, and you miss the point, which is about relative importance. It's 12% important to us and 7% important to them. If we lost all our European trade altogether, we'd be 12% down. They'd be 7% down. There's nothing disingenuous about that. In terms of %age of exports, we'd be 45% down and they would be 7% down.

As I have posted previously, what is misleading and disingenuous is to pretend that the EU (calling it a single body, when in fact it is a bunch of loosely aligned sovereign states), needs us more than we need them and therefore we hold the upper hand in any trade negotiations.

That very simplistic and erroneous claim, completely ignore the fact the the EU's trade with us is comprised of that of 27 nations. Our trade with them comprises of 1 nation, i.e. us.

If we fail to reach a satisfactory trade agreement, on the one side there is us who are massively impacted. Whereas on the other side there are 27 nations who are only marginally impacted. Their "pain" would be shared amongst 27 states whereas our pain would be shared with no-one. If we fail to reach agreement, how much do you think Latvia and Estonia will be inconvenienced? Yet we need their support in order to reach agreement.

This is a terrible basis for favourable negotiation.

Germany and France would not be marginally impacted, their economies would be seriously affected and the Eurozone would be plunged into a serious recession. Check out their high value exports to the UK, and mull over the fact that these are the economies that are keeping the Eurozone afloat. A trade war is mutually assured destruction and won't happen.