EU referendum

[dickie davies]

I put Obama's fourcentsworth in the same camp as De Gaulle's four centimes when he visited Quebec. Keep yer fuckin' nose out and get yer own house sorted!

I can't for the life of me see the connection - perhaps he can - that UK staying in with the deadbeats will reduce the number of innocent lives blown away by American nutters armed to the teeth with automatic weapons. Or is there another reason for his sally into UK politics?

Having spent eight years in the White House, tho (see what I did there?) I'm not a student of American politics, I am well and truly buggered to see what he has achieved. I wonder if it turns out to be a Yes vote he'll claim UK's continued membership of the EU as his legacy!

On last night's Question Time, it was suggested the reason the US wants us to remain in the EU is because we are America's voice

 

[Chippy_boy]

@steviemc, I respect your well-argued position and your post is fairly unusual on here in that it doesn't appear you are dogmatically taking a position in defiance of all logic.

For my part, I am very mixed about the whole question. On the one hand, I tend to agree with pretty much everything you've said. But on the other hand, I think the negative impact on the UK economy in the short term will be pretty bad and at my age - with effectively 10 working years left - I am really worried about 10 years of no growth, perhaps recession, rising unemployment, perhaps rising interest rates. I think most of these things are frankly inevitable if we leave.

Your position that these difficulties are not sufficient incentive for you to want us to remain is completely understandable and your choice. Ultimately it may also be my choice. However, at least you recognise there will be difficulties. I feel sorry for those who think everything will be plain sailing if we leave however, because I am certain it won't be.

 

[Malty]

'If it means I get my lightbulbs back, I want OUT': Liz Hurley weighs in on Brexit debate as she shares saucy selfie

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...exit-debate-as-she-shares-a-saucy-selfie.html


I'm sold !!

 

[Helmet Cole]

Out for me.

I have no desire for us to be part of a so called 'union' when it's abundantly clear that the advantages no longer serve their original intentions. The EU has become a sinkhole of red-tape with the larger nations constantly embroiled in power struggles. Of course Germany and France don't want to us to leave - why would they?

Whilst we remain they have far more chance to manipulate issues for their own self interests. So do we, but the problem is that they're better at it than us, due to our ongoing reluctance to put our foot down for fear of upsetting the other leading economic nations.

When our own PM lobbies for Britain to be able to opt out of having a 'closer-union' with the EU, yet purports to be in favour or remaining in it, it hardly fills you with confidence. When the US president makes a sound-bite that Britain should remain in the EU, yet this would be the last thing in the world he would advocate for his own country, it hardly fills you with confidence.

Cameron went cap in hand to the EU asking if we could have a proposal that newly arriving immigrant workers would not be entitled to non-contributory in-work benefits for a minimum of four years. Something which makes sense for our economy. Did he get it? No. It was blocked by strong opposition from four central European countries, one of them being...surprise surprise, Poland! No shit Sherlock. He was also shafted with his proposal to stop migrant workers sending child benefit money back to their home countries. No surprise there either.

The issue of migrant workers and immigration is only a small part of EU commitment, and many of those that are in favour of remaining in the EU often use this as a counter-argument, by suggesting that the people who want out do not really understand the full implications of EU membership and focus too much on migration and similar issues. It's the typical 'ah, but you don't really understand the full picture' response.

I disagree, and suggest the migrant worker example above indicates precisely why the EU does not function effectively. 28 member states each having their own agenda, and each having a major impact on other member states (irrespective of their individual economic position) is one of the most stifling things I can imagine.

The fear of trading becoming more difficult if we were to opt out isn't enough for me to want to remain. There are already excessive regulations imposed within the EU which restrict competitiveness and increase administration, therefore the idea that it's much easier trading whilst a member of the EU I find quite hard to swallow.

Spot on, very well put. Apparently the claim that the EU costs us 361m a week is wrong. That is our gross contribution. After all the rebates an smoke and mirror stuff we only actually lose 61m per week. I'm assuming the remain campaign expect us to think that is a good thing?

 

[Malty]

Spot on, very well put. Apparently the claim that the EU costs us 361m a week is wrong. That is our gross contribution. After all the rebates an smoke and mirror stuff we only actually lose 61m per week. I'm assuming the remain campaign expect us to think that is a good thing?

Great posts.

No BS. Simple truths that even the thickos could understand that want us to remain on a sinking ship which is the EU. Well said.

 

[sir baconface]

An example of why some of us suspect we don't get the full story..

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/a...ng-rape-Kent-shocking-conspiracy-silence.html

Yeah, yeah it's the fascist Daily Fail so it didn't happen, blah, blah, blah.

 

[EalingBlue2]

Come on now...yes, it can be called a union, but their system operates nothing, nothing (i repeat NOTHING) like an EU membership. That's a silly point-scoring reply.

No it became far far more than that, in many ways becoming what the outers so fear. There were US outers in many of the states, Texas, Louisiana, much of the south and west, back in the day. look how the Union was formed, for economic and external necessity, with inners and outers and different languages. They went the whole hog though common government , common language, full freedom of movement between the states. They even had original founding members and new joiners and very high immigration . Some big differences but Not as different as you think

 

[EalingBlue2]

An example of why some of us suspect we don't get the full story..

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/a...ng-rape-Kent-shocking-conspiracy-silence.html

Yeah, yeah it's the fascist Daily Fail so it didn't happen, blah, blah, blah.

We had a very similar situation with the BBC and ITV and Radio stations and our politicians did we not. Sadly the UK has been riddled with such conspiracies to protect sex criminals and they have protected rich and poor , black and white etc

 

[cibaman]

@steviemc, I respect your well-argued position and your post is fairly unusual on here in that it doesn't appear you are dogmatically taking a position in defiance of all logic.

For my part, I am very mixed about the whole question. On the one hand, I tend to agree with pretty much everything you've said. But on the other hand, I think the negative impact on the UK economy in the short term will be pretty bad and at my age - with effectively 10 working years left - I am really worried about 10 years of no growth, perhaps recession, rising unemployment, perhaps rising interest rates. I think most of these things are frankly inevitable if we leave.

Your position that these difficulties are not sufficient incentive for you to want us to remain is completely understandable and your choice. Ultimately it may also be my choice. However, at least you recognise there will be difficultie. I feel sorry for those who think everything will be plain sailing if we leave however, because I am certain it won't be.

In reality I think you only have to worry about the next two years. During that time its possible that the Leavers will have concluded a free trade agreement with no strings attached and proved that leaving the EU was undoubtedly the correct decision. They can all say "I told you so" and I for one will be very happy to be proved wrong.

But if they don't deliver a free trade agreement with no strings attached, we will not leave the EU. There will be a 2nd referendum which will almost certainly reverse the original decision to leave.

So, only two years to worry about. Two years of complete chaos perhaps, but only two years.

 

[EalingBlue2]

It's interesting how RAGcafe's in/out poll is in favour of staying in and opposite to Bluemoons (72% in favour of staying in the EU FFS not even close).. is that because most of their fans are foreign daytrippers perhaps and like the cushy relations the EU has with each other!?

Not that I'm saying all our hardcore fans are British, but just an observation.

I would suggest that this cellar and these threads are very white male dominated and increasingly middle aged and that sadly due to the way this board has gone theirs is a lot more inclusive . The only requirement there is you are a ****