EU referendum

[TRUE BLUE NO1]

Over the preceding pages I have made clear my reasons for voting out, to remind you they are:

Control of borders
Immigration control
Security
EU bureaucracy
Financial benefit £8,500,000,000 better off and £4,400,000,000 to invest as opposed to giving it to the EU to tell us how to spend it.
The ability of Britain to be a player in the world markets as opposed to being stifled by the slow progress of the lumbering machine that is the EU
The Lack of Accountability and democracy in the EU

I apologise most profusely if you or other inners don't agree but that is not my problem

Oh BTW, Cameron and Gideon and co just confirm my feelings that we'll be better of out. They are not high enough in my list of priorities to influence me either way. Boris and co are not much better, but they are no more dupicitouds, cowardly or liars that Cameron and Gideon. They're all cut from the same cloth!

I can work with that mate......dont agree with the views but respect that its your opinion!;)

 

[FanchesterCity]

It's fun to just debate - I don't think everybody is really out to change the opinions of others. We can try at times, but at least it makes people do a bit more research (if only to back up their own views) - no bad thing.

I reckon almost all of us know a little bit more about the EU than we did a couple of days ago - due to reading up and fact finding. That's got to be a decent thing.

 

[aguero93:20]

It's fun to just debate - I don't think everybody is really out to change the opinions of others. We can try at times, but at least it makes people do a bit more research (if only to back up their own views) - no bad thing.

I reckon almost all of us know a little bit more about the EU than we did a couple of days ago - due to reading up and fact finding. That's got to be a decent thing.

Disagree. I think this is going to leave you with the British equivalent of our Civil War politics whichever way the vote goes.

 

[TRUE BLUE NO1]

It's fun to just debate - I don't think everybody is really out to change the opinions of others. We can try at times, but at least it makes people do a bit more research (if only to back up their own views) - no bad thing.

I reckon almost all of us know a little bit more about the EU than we did a couple of days ago - due to reading up and fact finding. That's got to be a decent thing.

I agree mate......I've actually learnt alot from the "outs" and the "ins" over this past week and it has helped me form a more complete picture of what vote I feel is best for me.....and even found out Cameron changed his view about Turkey 6 years on!!;) (Yep, just kidding with you mate!;) Enjoying the debate....

 

[EalingBlue2]

Over the preceding pages I have made clear my reasons for voting out, to remind you they are:

Control of borders
Immigration control
Security
EU bureaucracy
Financial benefit £8,500,000,000 better off and £4,400,000,000 to invest as opposed to giving it to the EU to tell us how to spend it.
The ability of Britain to be a player in the world markets as opposed to being stifled by the slow progress of the lumbering machine that is the EU
The Lack of Accountability and democracy in the EU

I apologise most profusely if you or other inners don't agree but that is not my problem

Oh BTW, Cameron and Gideon and co just confirm my feelings that we'll be better of out. They are not high enough in my list of priorities to influence me either way. Boris and co are not much better, but they are no more dupicitouds, cowardly or liars that Cameron and Gideon. They're all cut from the same cloth!

I wasn't trying to insinuate you were an outer because of Cameron.

You have made your reasons clear, it just worry you that even with Brexit though you know there is a very good chance nothing will change with security and immigration and of it does it will only because of no deal and 9 billion won't look good as a saving on this scenario when we take per annum a 50-100 billion hit. I get your reasons but it's clear that they are almost conflicting in that even in the most optimistic scenarios of half come true the other half won't.

So which do you prefer the immigration stopping with economic problems or immigration continuing as is with lesser economic issues. There's the issue I would wager Brexit is split half half and even if they win half are going to lose as they will have voted the wrong way

 

[YPhrunts]

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Problem is mate.......vote leave EU and all you will be doing is showing full support that Cameron can lead us out of the economic mess and make our country better with all these magical billions we meant to have? Personally I'm alot more concerned with having to put my trust in this Government than I am in the EU......

Junker has admitted he would lie in order to manipulate people to his will. We know Cameron lies in order to manipulate us to his will. Take your pick.
But at least we can get rid of our own lying **** every election.

 

[EalingBlue2]

Disagree. I think this is going to leave you with the British equivalent of our Civil War politics whichever way the vote goes.

The only issue is whether it's two or three way civil war.

Remain wins its two way civil war with crash and burn revenge afterwards from Brexit mainly in the Tory party. Afterwards remainders will be blamed for everything from global warming to terrorism to every job lost.

Brexit wins it becomes 3 or 4 way civil war as when it becomes clear the economic brexiters are in direct conflict with immigration ones - Brexit will be at war with itself. Very job lost and every problem will also be blamed on Brexit by remainders - it will be carnage - though I think that applies both ways

Either way it's going to be bad for Britain unless a miracle happens and one side gets 65% plus and smashes the opposition

 

[FanchesterCity]

We still blame or praise Thatcher nearly 40 years on, this will be the same. Unless there's an absolutely overwhelming majority either way (zero chance of that though).

At the risk of sounding pessimistic, we've probably already lit the fuse for significant political and economic turmoil regardless of the outcome.

 

[YPhrunts]

The only issue is whether it's two or three way civil war.

Remain wins its two way civil war with crash and burn revenge afterwards from Brexit mainly in the Tory party. Afterwards remainders will be blamed for everything from global warming to terrorism to every job lost.

Brexit wins it becomes 3 or 4 way civil war as when it becomes clear the economic brexiters are in direct conflict with immigration ones - Brexit will be at war with itself. Very job lost and every problem will also be blamed on Brexit by remainders - it will be carnage - though I think that applies both ways

Either way it's going to be bad for Britain unless a miracle happens and one side gets 65% plus and smashes the opposition

If Brexit gets anywhere near top 40's then it's just a matter of time. There will be no split values.

We're leaving.

(Unless the Eurozone collapses in the meantime).

http://uk.reuters.com/article/us-eu-germany-commentary-idUKKCN0YF0ET

 

[EalingBlue2]

If Brexit gets anywhere near top 40's then it's just a matter of time. There will be no split values.

We're leaving.

(Unless the Eurozone collapses in the meantime).

http://uk.reuters.com/article/us-eu-germany-commentary-idUKKCN0YF0ET

If the losers of the vote act like losers which ever way it goes ten Britain is fucked as if this Carries on investment will go elsewhere anyway as uncertainty is almost worse than a bad certainty . I sincerely hope your wrong because it will be paid for in jobs , savings and with a 2 trillion pound deficit it will spell disaster .

One thing I agree with big joe on is it needs to be a big win either way and the losers need to accept it.

 

[Blue Haze]

The economist Milton Friedman basically predicted this would happen 18 years ago.

In a 1998 interview, Friedman was asked whether he believed the European Monetary Union would be a success. The economist responded that he was dubious.

"There are some cases where a single currency is desirable and some where it is not," Friedman said. "It is most desirable where you have countries that speak the same language, that have movement of people among them, and that have some system of adjusting asymmetric effects on the different parts of the country. The United States is a good area for a common currency, for all those reasons. But Europe is the opposite in all these respects."

He continued: "The exchange rate between different currencies was a mechanism by which they could adjust to shocks that hit them asymmetrically—that hit one area differently from another. The Europeans have, in effect, entered into a gamble in which they have thrown away that adjustment mechanism. It may work out all right. But on the whole, I think the odds are that it will be a source of great trouble."

http://reason.com/archives/2015/09/18/milton-friedman-saw-the-euro-c

 

[EalingBlue2]

The economist Milton Friedman basically predicted this would happen 18 years ago.


http://reason.com/archives/2015/09/18/milton-friedman-saw-the-euroitvis iron ice-c

His economics and his disciples are behind the entire world economic disaster of the lasts 8 years, many economists called 20 years ago the global collapse that would come because of friedmenomics, i wonder when he predicted this two decades ago if he also knew that the shock that would do it the most damage would be his baby

 

[Monkfish]

Disagree. I think this is going to leave you with the British equivalent of our Civil War politics whichever way the vote goes.

That's been going on in Tory politics for most of my lifetime. Vote remain and most of the anti EU block know they will be dead before the UK does leave EU if ever

There are plenty of other ways our politicians will find to screw us over, I'm not sure the EU will dominate as you think, we have heard enough for one lifetime surely

 

[whp.blue]

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Problem is mate.......vote leave EU and all you will be doing is showing full support that Cameron can lead us out of the economic mess and make our country better with all these magical billions we meant to have? Personally I'm alot more concerned with having to put my trust in this Government than I am in the EU......

rubbish
if the leave vote wins Cameron will be gone the next day

 

[Monkfish]

rubbish
if the leave vote wins Cameron will be gone the next day

Rubbish! He will be gone the same day

 

[BigJoe#1]

Who are the guys you don't trust? I don't even know who most of them are, let alone make value judgments on their trustworthiness.

You don't know who they are, yet you are prepared to vote for them....?

 

[TRUE BLUE NO1]

rubbish
if the leave vote wins Cameron will be gone the next day

Is that a "fact"? or opinion?......a big difference mate....unless Cameron has already said he'll walk you've got no grounds for that argument...and if the alternative is Boris.....then we really have got problems....Maybe he does go......but thats not a good thing if you expecting Boris to do any better...

 

[Tim of the Oak]

rubbish
if the leave vote wins Cameron will be gone the next day

With Gove & Bojo ready to step in!

 

[cibaman]

Is that a "fact"? or opinion?......a big difference mate....unless Cameron has already said he'll walk you've got no grounds for that argument...and if the alternative is Boris.....then we really have got problems....

Its not a fact but its very likely. If Cameron lost the vote and tried to stay on as PM then its almost certain that he would face a vote of no confidence from the Tory MPs. In theory he might win that as there are more Remain Tory MPs than Leave. But some Remain MPs would perhaps vote against him in anger at losing the vote. And some of the MPs for whom the decision to vote Remain was a borderline choice might switch sides.

But even if Cameron were to win a vote of no confidence, the resulting civil war in the Tory party would be potentially disastrous for the party. The Leavers in the party just wouldn't tolerate the negotiations being led by a PM and cabinet that favoured Remain. The chances of them ending up with a "Norway" relationship would be too great. Its the sort of issue that could result in the Tory party splitting in two.

My guess is that if Leave win, Cameron will resign before there is a vote of no confidence. I expect he'll consult with his closest allies and they will tell him to stand down "for the good of the party". Rather like when Thatcher resigned.

 

[TRUE BLUE NO1]

Its not a fact but its very likely. If Cameron lost the vote and tried to stay on as PM then its almost certain that he would face a vote of no confidence from the Tory MPs. In theory he might win that as there are more Remain Tory MPs than Leave. But some Remain MPs would perhaps vote against him in anger at losing the vote. And some of the MPs for whom the decision to vote Remain was a borderline choice might switch sides.

But even if Cameron were to win a vote of no confidence, the resulting civil war in the Tory party would be potentially disastrous for the party. The Leavers in the party just wouldn't tolerate the negotiations being led by a PM and cabinet that favoured Remain. The chances of them ending up with a "Norway" relationship would be too great. Its the sort of issue that could result in the Tory party splitting in two.

My guess is that if Leave win, Cameron will resign before there is a vote of no confidence. I expect he'll consult with his closest allies and they will tell him to stand down "for the good of the party". Rather like when Thatcher resigned.

thanks for your reply mate...I think we'd be worse off under Boris tho! ;)