EU referendum

[Zuriblue]

The standard of debate on this has been pretty poor with personalities dominating.
This is a pity because most of the Tories backing stay don't score high on personality, and the press won't give a serious platform to any other party.

There certainly has been foolish scaremongering along the lines of increased decreased risks of terrorism.
Perhaps worse is that scaremongering becomes the catch all "dead cat" of the campaign.

I was listening to the radio and the head of the Frankfurt Stock exchange gave an erudite interview.
He explained how multi nation treaties enabled various national bourses to trade efficiently.
He also explained how the various ID checks on trading entities were interchangeable - so a security checked business in the UK can bid for business in another member state without a ton of prior red-tape.
He finally explained that if London breaks away and refuses to play by the rules and regulations (established to guarantee liquidity post 2008), that other countries will require greater surety to trade with London.
Fascinating stuff, and I'm sure I've forgotten the half.

Then they got a UK politician to oppose him, who simplay stated "This is just more scaremongering".
Banal, simplistic, and available to cover any situation.

it's just

- What would a post-exit situation look like?
- We're proud and we're British.

- Hmm, some people who are actually quite bright think that there is a possibility that...
- SCAREMONGERING!!!11!

As my username suggests I actually live in Switzerland (brought up in Manc hence a Blue) and referenda are a way of life here, if you can get 100000 people to sign within 18 months it's put to the vote. But the media are scrupulous, giving the pros and cons, explaing what the initiative means and the possible consequences, similarly with the voting papers you get a booklet from the Government giving the full details of the story. Then you get this referendum and it's all scaremongering this, scaremongering that.

What I do find amusing is reading our RWNJs parroting the Brexit lines from papers like the Mail and the Sun as if they are some kind of higher truth and then going upstairs and finding the same RWNJs in the Agenda threads arguing that what was written in the papers was a load of crap.

 

[Yates]

It doesn't surprise me but it does annoy me when people who want out are classed as right wing little Englanders who hate Johnny foreigner & the people who want to remain in the EU are classed as lily-livered lefty liberals.
IMO there are valid reasons for either stance regarding the EU & whether to remain or not but the constant scaremongering does my fcuking head in.

Exact same happened with Scottish independence, I have no stake in that matter but it's amazing how many who opposed Scottish independence in England are in the same place a lot of Scots were. It's all dick waving to me though, if the mfers in charge really cared, they wouldn't make things so complicated and hard for everyone to get a long and trade with each other harmoniously. At the end of the day how outrageously childish and stupid does "If you leave our group, we won't trade fairly with you any more" I mean, that could be the case as there are a lot of insecure dick wavers out there but big business will always trade as they ain't gonna lose out.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Seen a fair bit of Dominic Raab MP in recent days - the worst type of **** in my book. Bangs on all the time about controlling our borders - keeping migrants out - controlling refugee numbers and so on. Mr Mr Raab overlooks is that in 1938 his grandfather - a Jew - fled Czechoslovakia before the Nazi's invaded for obvious reasons. Now I know that there were some back then advocating what Mr Raab does now but kindness prevailed and his granddad settled here leading to old Dom getting his grammar school and university education - legal qualifications and nice job as an MP. I despise people who get somewhere cushy and pull up the ladder behind them ...... fucking worst of the worst two faced bastards. He can advocate leaving the EU but lead on the economic argument not the - " foreigners coming over here taking our jobs " approach unless you add " like my granddad did in 38 " to your statement.

 

[Manchester_lalala]

In campaign are trying to win over the younger generation by claiming plane tickets to places in Europe will be more expensive. I'm 23 and I don't give a toss about paying a bit more to travel to Europe. What sort of arse campaign is this? Amateurs.

 

[BlueHammer85]

In campaign are trying to win over the younger generation by claiming plane tickets to places in Europe will be more expensive. I'm 23 and I don't give a toss about paying a bit more to travel to Europe. What sort of arse campaign is this? Amateurs.

well... there just raising one of many points.

 

[grunge]

I wonder what the hidden costs to the public will be on an exit vote, for example, passports, all uk passports are eu passports and will likely have to be renewed. Which is £80 odd a pop each. And x million in tax payers money for the re design.

 

[grunge]

In campaign are trying to win over the younger generation by claiming plane tickets to places in Europe will be more expensive. I'm 23 and I don't give a toss about paying a bit more to travel to Europe. What sort of arse campaign is this? Amateurs.

Why is that a younger generation thing?

 

[bluethrunthru]

I wonder what the hidden costs to the public will be on an exit vote, for example, passports, all uk passports are eu passports and will likely have to be renewed. Which is £80 odd a pop each. And x million in tax payers money for the re design.

But they will be British Navy blue again and sport a British crest so Daily Fail readers will be pleased.

The Zuriblue post at the top of this page makes some good points. When the outers blythely tell everyone that we will still be able to trade with the world that may be the case but at what cost - see what he says about checks and guarantees to trade between markets. International trade is done between trading blocs - that requires unilateral agreements - what happens if everybody in the EU agrees to trade with the UK say in the area of fresh fish and fisheries - but Spain won't agree. Negotiations drag on to their eventual conclusion but what happens to our business in the meantime whilst we can't trade into a market without agreement?

 

[Gelsons Dad]

But they will be British Navy blue again and sport a British crest so Daily Fail readers will be pleased.

The Zuriblue post at the top of this page makes some good points. When the outers blythely tell everyone that we will still be able to trade with the world that may be the case but at what cost - see what he says about checks and guarantees to trade between markets. International trade is done between trading blocs - that requires unilateral agreements - what happens if everybody in the EU agrees to trade with the UK say in the area of fresh fish and fisheries - but Spain won't agree. Negotiations drag on to their eventual conclusion but what happens to our business in the meantime whilst we can't trade into a market without agreement?

We don't need any trade agreements to trade. You simply make goods and services available. Without a common fisheries agreement we regain control of our fish stocks. The price of fish goes up in Europe and the european governments agree to allow import of British fish. We sell fish to Europe but control our fisheries.

The thing to remember is that we are doing Europe a favour being in their cartel as we import more than we export. We could import from anywhere in the world but the cartel makes it better in some cases to import from EU. Get out of the cartel and the EU must compete on equal footing with the rest of the globe for our business.

Have you seen the price of cars in the US? or clothes in China? or beef in Brazil? Why do we buy expensive cars from Germany? Because the EU cartel makes it cheaper than cars from the US. Out of the EU and everyone who wants to sell us stuff does so on an equal playing field and we get the best value.

 

[bluethrunthru]

We don't need any trade agreements to trade. You simply make goods and services available. Without a common fisheries agreement we regain control of our fish stocks. The price of fish goes up in Europe and the european governments agree to allow import of British fish. We sell fish to Europe but control our fisheries.

The thing to remember is that we are doing Europe a favour being in their cartel as we import more than we export. We could import from anywhere in the world but the cartel makes it better in some cases to import from EU. Get out of the cartel and the EU must compete on equal footing with the rest of the globe for our business.

Have you seen the price of cars in the US? or clothes in China? or beef in Brazil? Why do we buy expensive cars from Germany? Because the EU cartel makes it cheaper than cars from the US. Out of the EU and everyone who wants to sell us stuff does so on an equal playing field and we get the best value.

If thats the case then why do countries and blocs negotiate trade agreements with each other? Why aren't world markets swamped with goods and services made readily available by the producing countries? Why don't we already import cheaper cars from the US then? Is it because we are already part of a trading bloc called the EU that has trade agreements with other parts of the world? What if instead of buying fish off us the Spanish come and hoover up our fish stocks? They can't now because of the CFP - those rules won't apply to "our" waters if we come out. Whats to stop NZ flooding our open market with cheap lamb putting all our hill farmers out of business? All that cheap Brazilian beef coming our way damaging our beef cattle farmers? They don't now because of trade agreements with the EU which restrict volumes. It works both ways and we run the risk of in effect making ourselves a dumping ground for foreign goods - sure the initial bounce could be cheaper plentiful goods but that could come at the ruin of British industries as they are left vulnerable and unprotected.