EU referendum

EU referendum

  • In

    Votes: 503 47.9%

  • Out

    Votes: 547 52.1%
  • Total voters
    1,050
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BlueHammer85 said:
Just said it during the commons debate , he's just so skilful at answering questions and if we do stay in Europe - then yes, I believe he will go down as one of the greatest priministers in recent times. And I'm not a Tory voter.
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OK, fair enough. Stunned that you haven't had pelters for it, so I'm guessing some of the more vocal left leaning posters are still in work. Oh, and are you making up new words now?
 
purplenose said:
Not sure on that one, a wild guess is he made it a fixed term of five years? Must be some circumstances where an election could be called outside a fixed term....anyone put us right on this one?
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There is a fixed term of 5 years now but we don't need to have a general election if Dave resigns. He's going anyway before the end of this parliament.
 
Blue Maverick said:
Just seen a UKIP MEP on saying pulling out, if we did would she lose her job? How can someone from uk be in the europarliment?
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She would indeed, as would all the freeloading ex politicians like Kinock, another few million of taxpayers money saved ;0)
 
For those that support the yes to europe vote can I ask....what gives you any confidence that we will not get shafted in everyway like we have been doing upto now? After all Daves deal really and truly has turned out to be nothing more than a gimmick a rewording of certain things, nothing of any real substance, gained at huge expense to the taxpayer flying the fool all over Europe to be fucked off by all and sundry. The EU is simply not realistically workable surely we dont want to be in it when it does go tits up....and it will.
 
This is a joke... but please take heed, quite appropriate I think...

While walking down the street one day, a U.S. Senator is tragically hit by a truck and dies. His soul arrives in heaven and is met by St. Peter. “Welcome to heaven,”says St. Peter. “Before you settle in, it seems there is a problem. We seldom see a high ranking official around these parts you see, so we’re not sure what to do with you.”



—“No problem, just let me in,” said the Senator.

—“Well, I’d like to but I have orders from higher up. What we’ll do is have you spend one day in hell and one in heaven. Then you can choose where to spend eternity,” gently replied the Gatekeeper.

—“Really, I’ve made up my mind and I want to be in heaven,” answered the Senator.

—“I’m sorry, but we must abide by our rules,” firmly declared St. Peter.

And with that, St. Peter escorts him to the elevator and he descends into hell. When the door finally opens, he finds himself in the middle of a green golf course. In the distance is a clubhouse and standing in front of it are all his friends and other politicians who had previously worked with him. Everyone is very happy and dressed in evening attire. They run to greet him, shake his hand and reminisce about the good times they had while becoming wealthy at the expense of the people. They played a friendly game of golf and dined on lobster, caviar and champagne. Also present is the devil who actually is a friendly guy who has a good time dancing and telling jokes. They are having such a good time, that before the Senator realizes it, it’s time to go. Everyone gives him a hearty farewell and waves as the elevator rises. As the elevator ascends and the door opens, St. Peter is there waiting and says, “Now it’s time to visit heaven.”

So, 24 hours passed while the Senator enjoys himself by joining a group of contented souls moving from cloud to cloud, playing harps and singing. Again, before he realizes, his time is up and St. Peter returns and asks, “Well, after spending a day in hell and a day in heaven, where do you choose to spend eternity?” The senator reflects for a minute the answers, “Well, I would have never said it before—I mean heaven has been delightful—but I think I would be better off in hell.”

So, St. Peter escorts him to the elevator where he descends into hell. As the elevator door opens, the Senator notices that he’s in the middle of a barren land covered with waste and garbage. He sees his friends, dressed in rags, placing trash into black bags as it falls from above. The devil arrives to greet him. “I don’t understand,” stammers the Senator. “Yesterday I was here and there was a golf course with a clubhouse. We ate lobster and caviar, drank champagne and danced and had a great time. Now there’s just a wasteland full of garbage and my friends look miserable. What happened?”

The devil looks at him and smilingly replies, “Yesterday we were campaigning. Today you voted.”
 
purplenose said:
For those that support the yes to europe vote can I ask....what gives you any confidence that we will not get shafted in everyway like we have been doing upto now? After all Daves deal really and truly has turned out to be nothing more than a gimmick a rewording of certain things, nothing of any real substance, gained at huge expense to the taxpayer flying the fool all over Europe to be fucked off by all and sundry. The EU is simply not realistically workable surely we dont want to be in it when it does go tits up....and it will.
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.... and don't forget. He's ditching the job after the referendum so will be totally and utterly u accountable for the mess he'll leave behind.

The fact he said he wouldn't stand again was probably quite influential in him calling the referendum, he quite literally has nothing, absolutely nothing to lose.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
There is a fixed term of 5 years now but we don't need to have a general election if Dave resigns. He's going anyway before the end of this parliament.
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Did we used to have to have an election previously? I thought the PM could be succeeded in office, then again that was only an assumption. Thinking about it Did Thatchers resignation trigger an election?
 
BigJoe#1 said:
Did we used to have to have an election previously? I thought the PM could be succeeded in office, then again that was only an assumption. Thinking about it Did Thatchers resignation trigger an election?
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Nope just a leadership battle if I remember rightly, isn't it the party that's voted in not the person?
 
grunge said:
Nope just a leadership battle if I remember rightly, isn't it the party that's voted in not the person?
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That's right. Parliament can only be dissolved if there is a successful vote of no confidence or if two-thirds of the MP's agree to dissolve early. If the PM resigns, then there's just an internal election within that party. If Cameron sticks to his promise (first time for everything I guess) not stand at the next election then he'll stand down as party leader, probably in around 2 and a half years.
 
I
grunge said:
Nope just a leadership battle if I remember rightly, isn't it the party that's voted in not the person?
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It's not even that, we vote for our local representative in parliament , then the elected MPs form a government, as far as I know there is no rule that it has to be on party lines, though it obviously will be, and I Dont think there is any rule that the largest party has to make it's leader pm, at least that's what I've always understood. So if a party changes leader we don't have an election because in theory we don't vote for a Prime minister, only our MP.
 
I love the voting button above, but the opportunity to change your mind is genius.

Can we have it on the Matchday thread....will we win 'Yes' or 'No', then allow a change of mind at half time.
 
purplenose said:
For those that support the yes to europe vote can I ask....what gives you any confidence that we will not get shafted in everyway like we have been doing upto now?
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"Confidence that we will not get shafted" doesn't apply to the majority of people on low incomes.

Our own government shafts the working class on a daily basis and aren't going to stop that - whilst continuing their campaign to demonise that particular section of society - whether we remain in or get out. To my knowledge, that's where the immediate impact of any decision ceases to have any relevance on folks such as my self. Such a philosophy strays too close to apathy, in my eyes, and is a sign that I need to educate myself more about the consequences of such a decision.

I'm undecided on which way to vote yet as I'm resisting the most immature of urges to just vote against whatever that insufferable shit stain on the neon thong of society Farage wants.

So, with that in mind, does anyone have any recommended reading? There are a lot of strong opinions on here and I don't expect anyone to find any information that doesn't serve an agenda so just fire away with whatever you like and I'll be very grateful.
 
bluethrunthru said:
really? Were it to go tits up we would be a different proposition - why would they want us back if we were no longer the 5th biggest economy? Would they want the say 25th? If Romania and Turkey are such basket cases then why would the EU burden themselves with another crap economy if it went tits up for us - if we haven't voted in a generation then believe me its a generation at least before the EU would want us back in.
If we vote to leave it will stir nationalist parties up in other EU countries - they won't forgive us quickly for upsetting the delicate balance they have all striven to establish. We leave and the ticket is one way.
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I've got no dog in this fight, but your statement is interesting. You've repeated several times that because the UK is rich and is currently in the EU, the UK must be rich due to the EU. Before the EU ever existed, Britain created three of the top five financial centers in the world. Switzerland and Norway are currently outside the EU and remain prosperous, while Bulgaria and Romania are poor. Cyprus and Greece are basket cases. If the EU is so influential in ensuring wealth, why are so many of its countries not prospering?

IMHO you give your country too little credit. It was a power before the EU and will remain one no matter what happens with the referendum.
 
In the week when the UK's five extremist right-wing media billionaires won their battle to waste our time, money and political capital on a EU referendum,

"What did the EU ever do for us?

Not much, apart from: providing 57% of our trade;
structural funding to areas hit by industrial decline;
clean beaches and rivers;
cleaner air;
lead free petrol;
restrictions on landfill dumping;
a recycling culture;
cheaper mobile charges;
cheaper air travel;
improved consumer protection and food labelling;
a ban on growth hormones and other harmful food additives;
better product safety;
single market competition bringing quality improvements and better industrial performance;
break up of monopolies;
Europe-wide patent and copyright protection;
no paperwork or customs for exports throughout the single market;
price transparency and removal of commission on currency exchanges across the eurozone;
freedom to travel, live and work across Europe;
funded opportunities for young people to undertake study or work placements abroad;
access to European health services;
labour protection and enhanced social welfare;
smoke-free workplaces;
equal pay legislation;
holiday entitlement;
the right not to work more than a 48-hour week without overtime;
strongest wildlife protection in the world;
improved animal welfare in food production;
EU-funded research and industrial collaboration;
EU representation in international forums;
bloc EEA negotiation at the WTO;
EU diplomatic efforts to uphold the nuclear non-proliferation treaty;
European arrest warrant;
cross border policing to combat human trafficking, arms and drug smuggling; counter terrorism intelligence;
European civil and military co-operation in post-conflict zones in Europe and Africa;
support for democracy and human rights across Europe and beyond;
investment across Europe contributing to better living standards and educational, social and cultural capital.
All of this is nothing compared with its greatest achievements: the EU has for 60 years been the foundation of peace between European neighbours after centuries of bloodshed.
It furthermore assisted the extraordinary political, social and economic transformation of 13 former dictatorships, now EU members, since 1980.
Now the union faces major challenges brought on by neoliberal economic globalisation, and worsened by its own systemic weaknesses. It is taking measures to overcome these. We in the UK should reflect on whether our net contribution of £7bn out of total government expenditure of £695bn is good value. We must play a full part in enabling the union to be a force for good in a multi-polar global future.

Over 80% of UK papers are owned by five extremist right wing media billionaires: Rupert Murdoch, (Sun/Times), Barclay Brothers (Telegraph), Richard Desmond (Express) and Lord Rothermere (Daily Mail).
Murdoch is Australian living in New York, Rothermere lives in France, the Barclay Brothers in the tax havens of Monaco and Guernsey. All of them use tax haven entities to avoid UK taxes.
So key question is in light of the above list, why have these billionaires for decades tried to destroy the EU's democratic institutions?
 
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