EU referendum

EU referendum

  • In

    Votes: 503 47.9%

  • Out

    Votes: 547 52.1%
  • Total voters
    1,050
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KenTheLandlord said:
In the week when the UK's five extremist right-wing media billionaires won their battle to waste our time, money and political capital on a EU referendum,

"What did the EU ever do for us?

Not much, apart from: providing 57% of our trade;
structural funding to areas hit by industrial decline;
clean beaches and rivers;
cleaner air;
lead free petrol;
restrictions on landfill dumping;
a recycling culture;
cheaper mobile charges;
cheaper air travel;
improved consumer protection and food labelling;
a ban on growth hormones and other harmful food additives;
better product safety;
single market competition bringing quality improvements and better industrial performance;
break up of monopolies;
Europe-wide patent and copyright protection;
no paperwork or customs for exports throughout the single market;
price transparency and removal of commission on currency exchanges across the eurozone;
freedom to travel, live and work across Europe;
funded opportunities for young people to undertake study or work placements abroad;
access to European health services;
labour protection and enhanced social welfare;
smoke-free workplaces;
equal pay legislation;
holiday entitlement;
the right not to work more than a 48-hour week without overtime;
strongest wildlife protection in the world;
improved animal welfare in food production;
EU-funded research and industrial collaboration;
EU representation in international forums;
bloc EEA negotiation at the WTO;
EU diplomatic efforts to uphold the nuclear non-proliferation treaty;
European arrest warrant;
cross border policing to combat human trafficking, arms and drug smuggling; counter terrorism intelligence;
European civil and military co-operation in post-conflict zones in Europe and Africa;
support for democracy and human rights across Europe and beyond;
investment across Europe contributing to better living standards and educational, social and cultural capital.
All of this is nothing compared with its greatest achievements: the EU has for 60 years been the foundation of peace between European neighbours after centuries of bloodshed.
It furthermore assisted the extraordinary political, social and economic transformation of 13 former dictatorships, now EU members, since 1980.
Now the union faces major challenges brought on by neoliberal economic globalisation, and worsened by its own systemic weaknesses. It is taking measures to overcome these. We in the UK should reflect on whether our net contribution of £7bn out of total government expenditure of £695bn is good value. We must play a full part in enabling the union to be a force for good in a multi-polar global future.

Over 80% of UK papers are owned by five extremist right wing media billionaires: Rupert Murdoch, (Sun/Times), Barclay Brothers (Telegraph), Richard Desmond (Express) and Lord Rothermere (Daily Mail).
Murdoch is Australian living in New York, Rothermere lives in France, the Barclay Brothers in the tax havens of Monaco and Guernsey. All of them use tax haven entities to avoid UK taxes.
So key question is in light of the above list, why have these billionaires for decades tried to destroy the EU's democratic institutions?
Click to expand...

and how do you know that any or all of these may have been done by a British government if we weren't in the EU? Britain was a democracy long before it joined the EEC
 
Blue Haze said:
I've got no dog in this fight, but your statement is interesting. You've repeated several times that because the UK is rich and is currently in the EU, the UK must be rich due to the EU. Before the EU ever existed, Britain created three of the top five financial centers in the world. Switzerland and Norway are currently outside the EU and remain prosperous, while Bulgaria and Romania are poor. Cyprus and Greece are basket cases. If the EU is so influential in ensuring wealth, why are so many of its countries not prospering?

IMHO you give your country too little credit. It was a power before the EU and will remain one no matter what happens with the referendum.
Click to expand...

.
The time when they were created the world was such a different place. Switzerland is wealthy because of its banking history and the fact that its been helpful to Europe's rich to have a country with that banking culture close at hand. Norway didn't squander its oil bonanza wealth of the 80's on supporting over 3m unemployed. It invested in its future. Bulgaria and Romania are poor like all former eastern Bloc countries were - the Poland has prospered as has the former East Germany- both for different reasons and Cyprus and Greece are basket cases because of their own economic mis management.

My concern is for the next 25 years in a new world where China and India grow economically and the EU as a bloc works for its members - we will have too little influence on a world stage to matter
 
Couldn't the UK could setup a low tax haven for corporations to pull them in?
 
The Eurosceptics have yet another voice

Cb19qV5WAAEx8nJ.jpg:large


So that's Farage, Galloway, Johnson, Gove etc.
 
EalingBlue2 said:
Yes there are but left wing doesn't mean not nationalist and not all outters have the same motive. Talking about the overall bent of the board doesn't imply everyone thinks the same. Just the balance
Click to expand...
Google translate just blocked me for putting that in.
 
KenTheLandlord said:
In the week when the UK's five extremist right-wing media billionaires won their battle to waste our time, money and political capital on a EU referendum,

"What did the EU ever do for us?

Not much, apart from: providing 57% of our trade;
structural funding to areas hit by industrial decline;
clean beaches and rivers;
cleaner air;
lead free petrol;
restrictions on landfill dumping;
a recycling culture;
cheaper mobile charges;
cheaper air travel;
improved consumer protection and food labelling;
a ban on growth hormones and other harmful food additives;
better product safety;
single market competition bringing quality improvements and better industrial performance;
break up of monopolies;
Europe-wide patent and copyright protection;
no paperwork or customs for exports throughout the single market;
price transparency and removal of commission on currency exchanges across the eurozone;
freedom to travel, live and work across Europe;
funded opportunities for young people to undertake study or work placements abroad;
access to European health services;
labour protection and enhanced social welfare;
smoke-free workplaces;
equal pay legislation;
holiday entitlement;
the right not to work more than a 48-hour week without overtime;
strongest wildlife protection in the world;
improved animal welfare in food production;
EU-funded research and industrial collaboration;
EU representation in international forums;
bloc EEA negotiation at the WTO;
EU diplomatic efforts to uphold the nuclear non-proliferation treaty;
European arrest warrant;
cross border policing to combat human trafficking, arms and drug smuggling; counter terrorism intelligence;
European civil and military co-operation in post-conflict zones in Europe and Africa;
support for democracy and human rights across Europe and beyond;
investment across Europe contributing to better living standards and educational, social and cultural capital.
All of this is nothing compared with its greatest achievements: the EU has for 60 years been the foundation of peace between European neighbours after centuries of bloodshed.
It furthermore assisted the extraordinary political, social and economic transformation of 13 former dictatorships, now EU members, since 1980.
Now the union faces major challenges brought on by neoliberal economic globalisation, and worsened by its own systemic weaknesses. It is taking measures to overcome these. We in the UK should reflect on whether our net contribution of £7bn out of total government expenditure of £695bn is good value. We must play a full part in enabling the union to be a force for good in a multi-polar global future.

Over 80% of UK papers are owned by five extremist right wing media billionaires: Rupert Murdoch, (Sun/Times), Barclay Brothers (Telegraph), Richard Desmond (Express) and Lord Rothermere (Daily Mail).
Murdoch is Australian living in New York, Rothermere lives in France, the Barclay Brothers in the tax havens of Monaco and Guernsey. All of them use tax haven entities to avoid UK taxes.
So key question is in light of the above list, why have these billionaires for decades tried to destroy the EU's democratic institutions?
Click to expand...

Your last question is an important point.

The right wing tabloid owning twats that unfortunately sway a lot of the electorate want us out of the E.U not because of immigrants etc but because it currently stops them forming even bigger monopolies. We come out of the E.U. and Murdoch etc can pave the way to buy up much more media outlets.
 
purplenose said:
For those that support the yes to europe vote can I ask....what gives you any confidence that we will not get shafted in everyway like we have been doing upto now? After all Daves deal really and truly has turned out to be nothing more than a gimmick a rewording of certain things, nothing of any real substance, gained at huge expense to the taxpayer flying the fool all over Europe to be fucked off by all and sundry. The EU is simply not realistically workable surely we dont want to be in it when it does go tits up....and it will.
Click to expand...

It's Dave's fault not the EUs.
You're getting face f**ked like a pig at an Oxbridge dinner party because you've elected the worst Prime Minister in British history. Twice!
 
The in crowd should not worry. If the outs win it'll just go to another referendum.
 
blueish swede said:
It's Dave's fault not the EUs.
You're getting face f**ked like a pig at an Oxbridge dinner party because you've elected the worst Prime Minister in British history. Twice!
Click to expand...

I cannot argue against your points regarding Cameron I find it astonishing people in this country are so easilly led by the idiot.

As for the EU I just dont think it is a workable thing. Which with regret I have to admit can not be blamed on Dave. Why would you suggest that it is his fault that many in this country see little positive about being in the EU? The whole thing is beginning to fail and there will be chaos when it does....again that is something much as I would love too i cannot blame dave for that either.
 
whp.blue said:
and how do you know that any or all of these may have been done by a British government if we weren't in the EU? Britain was a democracy long before it joined the EEC
Click to expand...
no one can possibly know what would have happened in an alternative past anymore that they should pretend to know what will happen in an alternative future
 
TonyM said:
The in crowd should not worry. If the outs win it'll just go to another referendum.
Click to expand...
This is the problem, neither side will accept defeat as legitimate and everything that goes wrong for the next decade will be blamed for everything in the future that goes wrong. I think the fact that the argument has happened and the vote will happen has probably done half the damage no matter what the outcome as it guarantees sniping, blame game, constitutional issues that will effect the uk for decades
 
argyle said:
Your last question is an important point.

The right wing tabloid owning twats that unfortunately sway a lot of the electorate want us out of the E.U not because of immigrants etc but because it currently stops them forming even bigger monopolies. We come out of the E.U. and Murdoch etc can pave the way to buy up much more media outlets.
Click to expand...
At least one of those newspapers should have been shut down and the owner prosecuted for treason last century .
 
Just heard that polling has returned some very interesting results, so far.
Apparently, people responding to telephone pollsters are predominantly in the 'In' camp, whilst internet polls reveal a larger
majority indicating they want 'Out.' For me, this smacks of a similar scenario to the general election, where 'Shy' Tories tended to say one thing
face to face, but voted the other way in private. Of course, it could, and probably will, be totally different next week, but it's another fascinating
aspect of this period in time.
 
EalingBlue2 said:
no one can possibly know what would have happened in an alternative past anymore that they should pretend to know what will happen in an alternative future
Click to expand...

Funny you say that, as the people advocating we stay in are doing just that, foreseeing the future and all the impending doom an out vote brings.
Portraying the future as if it is set in stone is the "In campaign" in a nutshell.
 
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