EU referendum

EU referendum

  • In

    Votes: 503 47.9%

  • Out

    Votes: 547 52.1%
  • Total voters
    1,050
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CityStu said:
Not necessarily batting for no, but those 64 are at least ambivalent as to whether the UK remains in the EU.

I find it funny how they've said it will threaten jobs, yet the UK has had a better recent job creation record than all of the other EU nations combined.
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No those companies think they are best served by not taking a politics position that is a very different thing. As a company director of a large company (admittedly a subsidiary so not in the same boat) I would be very careful not to take a position publicly against 50% of my customers unless it was extremely important and of a magnitude that would off set al the downsides.
 
CityStu said:
Not necessarily batting for no, but those 64 are at least ambivalent as to whether the UK remains in the EU.

I find it funny how they've said it will threaten jobs, yet the UK has had a better recent job creation record than all of the other EU nations combined.
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Which is a strong I argument that will be used and shows that Britain is not constrained in the way that many complain
 
Both arguments i'm hearing are exactly the same, both saying their way will be the most secure, better for the country etc. So somebody is lying.
Its hard getting the truth when both sides just bullshit, so im going to have to go with my gut and say "In". No real reason behind it, i just feel leaving would cause more trouble than its worth
 
CTID1988 said:
Both arguments i'm hearing are exactly the same, both saying their way will be the most secure, better for the country etc. So somebody is lying.
Its hard getting the truth when both sides just bullshit, so im going to have to go with my gut and say "In". No real reason behind it, i just feel leaving would cause more trouble than its worth
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Both sides are guessing they don't know the long term outlook just like the Scottish independence vote, in the end people will stay with the status quo through fear. In the future when the in posters complain about politicians with their noses in the trough or lack of housing and low paid jobs just tell them to kindly go and fuck themselves.
 
CTID1988 said:
Both arguments i'm hearing are exactly the same, both saying their way will be the most secure, better for the country etc. So somebody is lying.
Its hard getting the truth when both sides just bullshit, so im going to have to go with my gut and say "In". No real reason behind it, i just feel leaving would cause more trouble than its worth
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I think in many ways both are lying and both are telling the truth as with all things in politics. Because Britain isn't made up of 60 million identical people living in identical houses, with identical jobs in identical areas, whatever the vote could be catastrophic for some and a godsend for others. Add to that it is a debate about the future which no one can for tell and it is not necessarily lies.

The best way is to look at the motives of those who have strong opinions and what they have based those on. Why do Cameron and Johnsons fee strongly, why do the Mail have such a strong view etc etc
 
hilts said:
Both sides are guessing they don't know the long term outlook just like the Scottish independence vote, in the end people will stay with the status quo through fear. In the future when the in posters complain about politicians with their noses in the trough or lack of housing and low paid jobs just tell them to kindly go and fuck themselves.
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Just tell everyone to go fuck themselves as you won't know who people voted for as few will get the tattoo
 
CTID1988 said:
Both arguments i'm hearing are exactly the same, both saying their way will be the most secure, better for the country etc. So somebody is lying.
Its hard getting the truth when both sides just bullshit, so im going to have to go with my gut and say "In". No real reason behind it, i just feel leaving would cause more trouble than its worth
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Two sides thinking they will be more secure and better for the country doesn't mean one side is lying just they believe different things. What would be the the reason to support an argument and believe it to be a lie ? You need to listen to their reasoning and make a decision.
I've just been through this in Scotland and there won't be a 100% one way or the other argument there are pros and cons to both argument in the end you have to look at both sides and come to a balanced decision in the case of independence I would say it was about 60/40 in my final decision.
 
blueparrot said:
Two sides thinking they will be more secure and better for the country doesn't mean one side is lying just they believe different things. What would be the the reason to support an argument and believe it to be a lie ? You need to listen to their reasoning and make a decision.
I've just been through this in Scotland and there won't be a 100% one way or the other argument there are pros and cons to both argument in the end you have to look at both sides and come to a balanced decision in the case of independence I would say it was about 60/40 in my final decision.
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I am convinced that a majority of people in Scotland wanted self rule just as the majority want the same with this referendum, it is a shame that a lot of people have no back bone
 
I agree it is very hard to understand the left siding with big business in supporting the EU. If Labour are the party of the working class why is it fighting to uphold membership of an EU whose free movement of people has created greater competition for working class jobs and kept wages down, having its greatest effects at the bottom end of the income scale. An EU free movement that has increased pressure on schools, hospitals and other public services that also increases demand for accommodation a factor in house price rises and the cost of renting. What of TTIP on its own reason enough to leave due to its threat to the NHS which I understood was Labours NHS, it's greatest priority. Call me a cynic but open borders appear to be a far greater priority for Labour than the NHS, open borders with the entire planet for some of the Labour leadership.

When did most in Labour give up on democracy, the crushing of Greece against it peoples political will should tell them what the EU thinks of national democracy. Are they happy to be ruled from afar with a voice and influence that diminishes as a every new country joins the EU, Turkey when it joins will have more MEPs than the UK. The left are siding with big Business and the Establishment and in doing so are selling out on democracy.
 
hilts said:
I am convinced that a majority of people in Scotland wanted self rule just as the majority want the same with this referendum, it is a shame that a lot of people have no back bone
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There wasn't a big majority either way in Scotland just as there doesn't seem to be for the EU looking at the polls and the vote on here. It could go either way nothing to do with back bone, there's a lot to think about.
 
Time to face a few truths.

Claim ; "We are better staying in because we can influence things"

Fact ; In the last twenty years the UK has opposed a measure in the "Council of ministers" on seventy two occasions, on every single one we were outvoted.

Claim ; We are still a sovereign state.

Fact ; Over sixty percent of UK laws are now made or derived from the EU, if a country does not make its own law or control its own borders it is not sovereign.

Claim ; We have a veto to ensure no important new policy can be decided in Brussels.

Fact ; In 1975 the same claim was made by the "Inners", they put out a leaflet "Will parliament lose its power?", then answered its own question with "No...No important new policy can be decided without the consent of a British minister answerable to a British parliament", So the EU changed the way it voted with the 1988 Single European act, making it "Qualified majority voting" by which these matters are settled.

Claim ; The EU is better for employment.

Fact ; The EU does not create jobs,as a matter of fact it adds a layer of cost to every single sale or purchase, its more true to say it undermines pay and working conditions by the free movement of cheap labor, ask yourself, have your living standards gone up when you can not get a school place for your kid, a GP appointment or Hospital bed, a house from the council ?, does it make any sense to import unskilled labor when there are millions on the dole...And its your taxes thats paying the dole money ?.


When you buy something its because you need it or want it, if the price is what you want to pay and the quality is right you will buy it, international trade works the same way, so forget this nonsense that a trade war will erupt if we leave, the EU sell us more than we sell them is a fact.

Vote out, get us the hell away from this corrupt bunch of thieves.
 
Thee is very likely
grunge said:
I think your in wishful thinking land with 1% and underestimating the idea that companies are in it to make money, not for the good of the employees.

Just the idea of exiting is hitting the pound against other currencies ( lowest against the Dollar in nearly 10 years ), us exiting would hammer the pound, cause massive uncertainty in the Euro which both would cause major financial ripples around the globe, and with the global finances still being rather delicate its not a push to see a global recession kicking off because of it.
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There is very likely to be another global crash whether we stay in or leave, do we also have to sacrifice our democracy for the banks now? The Pound fell against the Dollar but not so much against the Euro which tells us something. SWP is right these big businesses won't leave, the same big businesses and politicians were telling us businesses would flee if we didn't join the Euro, it didn't happen.
 
blueparrot said:
There wasn't a big majority either way in Scotland just as there doesn't seem to be for the EU looking at the polls and the vote on here. It could go either way nothing to do with back bone, there's a lot to think about.
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As I stated there is a difference between what people want and how they vote, Scotland is more left wing than england, they feel that Westminster doesn't give a toss about them and they are right, if they knew that leaving wouldn't hinder them financially they would have voted independence be quite a margin, many chose not to take that risk, they bottled it just as we will
 
blueonblue said:
Time to face a few truths.

Claim ; "We are better staying in because we can influence things"

Fact ; In the last twenty years the UK has opposed a measure in the "Council of ministers" on seventy two occasions, on every single one we were outvoted.
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False, we have Veto power which we can, and have used.
 
hilts said:
As I stated there is a difference between what people want and how they vote, Scotland is more left wing than england, they feel that Westminster doesn't give a toss about them and they are right, if they knew that leaving wouldn't hinder them financially they would have voted independence be quite a margin, many chose not to take that risk, they bottled it just as we will
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That's the key, though if you're unsure of what it will mean financially for yourself and your family then you won't vote for it, it's being responsible for your family nothing to do with bottle or back bone. Obviously if the majority thought it wouldn't effect them financially then they would have voted for independence but there was enough doubt for them to vote against.
 
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