EU referendum

EU referendum

  • In

    Votes: 503 47.9%
  • Out

    Votes: 547 52.1%

  • Total voters
    1,050
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Thee is very likely


There is very likely to be another global crash whether we stay in or leave, do we also have to sacrifice our democracy for the banks now? The Pound fell against the Dollar but not so much against the Euro which tells us something. SWP is right these big businesses won't leave, the same big businesses and politicians were telling us businesses would flee if we didn't join the Euro, it didn't happen.

The thing with business leaders in cases like this is that uncertainty affects the market, they can't predict the future but seeing their shares drop isn't good for them or their shareholders, I am not in the habit of voting just to keep some rich guys share price healthy and some others guys wages low

Mass immigration keeps wages low and public services stretched, Brussels is a self serving money pit and the eu as a whole is a dilution of democracy, if these facts are not enough for some people they deserve what they get
 
That's the key, though if you're unsure of what it will mean financially for yourself and your family then you won't vote for it, it's being responsible for your family nothing to do with bottle or back bone. Obviously if the majority thought it wouldn't effect them financially then they would have voted for independence but there was enough doubt for them to vote against.

I am sorry but that whole paragraph is the definition of bottling it
 
That kind of proves the point grunge, we did not change a thing, they just changed how the voting was done without including us and carried on with what they wanted to do.
 
That kind of proves the point grunge, we did not change a thing, they just changed how the voting was done without including us and carried on with what they wanted to do.

This is what they do and what they will always do unless the whole thing collapses, to me if you believe in the eu project go balls in otherwise don't bother, the whole argument about staying in to reform it is bollocks, they don't listen or change anyhow because they want a fully federal Europe, all we do is slow things down a little sometimes, they are only interested in our financial contributions, we are a nuisance to them
 
That kind of proves the point grunge, we did not change a thing, they just changed how the voting was done without including us and carried on with what they wanted to do.

It changed to the extent that we are not part of that treaty, which If i recall was banking regulations that we are not applying to the banks in the City.
 
The thing with business leaders in cases like this is that uncertainty affects the market, they can't predict the future but seeing their shares drop isn't good for them or their shareholders, I am not in the habit of voting just to keep some rich guys share price healthy and some others guys wages low

Mass immigration keeps wages low and public services stretched, Brussels is a self serving money pit and the eu as a whole is a dilution of democracy, if these facts are not enough for some people they deserve what they get

Bang on, this is about democracy and immigration all other issues are secondary. I agree if people vote to Remain they deserve whats coming to them as the EU will see it as a green light to carry on as they have always done. Anti EU parties are gaining ground all over the EU so its going to fail sooner or later, for the sake of our democracy and to finally decide on who comes here and who does not lets get out now so that we are settled and independent when the whole rotten Eu structure finally collapses.
 
It changed to the extent that we are not part of that treaty, which If i recall was banking regulations that we are not applying to the banks in the City.

Besides not changing anything you mean, but my post was to highlight that the promise made in 1975 was neatly side stepped by them simply changing the voting rules, you simply can not trust any promises made by this bunch of crooks, and call me dave is trying to sell us the same bag of shite.
 
Time to face a few truths.

Claim ; "We are better staying in because we can influence things"

Fact ; In the last twenty years the UK has opposed a measure in the "Council of ministers" on seventy two occasions, on every single one we were outvoted.

Claim ; We are still a sovereign state.

Fact ; Over sixty percent of UK laws are now made or derived from the EU, if a country does not make its own law or control its own borders it is not sovereign.

Claim ; We have a veto to ensure no important new policy can be decided in Brussels.

Fact ; In 1975 the same claim was made by the "Inners", they put out a leaflet "Will parliament lose its power?", then answered its own question with "No...No important new policy can be decided without the consent of a British minister answerable to a British parliament", So the EU changed the way it voted with the 1988 Single European act, making it "Qualified majority voting" by which these matters are settled.

Claim ; The EU is better for employment.

Fact ; The EU does not create jobs,as a matter of fact it adds a layer of cost to every single sale or purchase, its more true to say it undermines pay and working conditions by the free movement of cheap labor, ask yourself, have your living standards gone up when you can not get a school place for your kid, a GP appointment or Hospital bed, a house from the council ?, does it make any sense to import unskilled labor when there are millions on the dole...And its your taxes thats paying the dole money ?.


When you buy something its because you need it or want it, if the price is what you want to pay and the quality is right you will buy it, international trade works the same way, so forget this nonsense that a trade war will erupt if we leave, the EU sell us more than we sell them is a fact.

Vote out, get us the hell away from this corrupt bunch of thieves.

Good argument

I'm convinced
 
The only figure you need to worry about
Exports UK > Germany 34bn
Imports UK < Germany 79bn

Now if the rEU wants to put trade tariffs on after Brexit add say 10% to both figures and who is the winner?
This is why any trade negotiations after Brexit will be on our terms.
 
i think I'll stick with the 'In' brigade as I don't trust London to help Manchester out and I don't think that Europe will shove all it's resources down south and leave us to rot as has been the case with UK London centric powers of late
 
No those companies think they are best served by not taking a politics position that is a very different thing. As a company director of a large company (admittedly a subsidiary so not in the same boat) I would be very careful not to take a position publicly against 50% of my customers unless it was extremely important and of a magnitude that would off set al the downsides.
You don't know that at all.

It's funny that when a company publicly backs the campaign you support you welcome it yet when they refuse you decide it's only because they've 'not taken a political stance'.
 
The only figure you need to worry about
Exports UK > Germany 34bn
Imports UK < Germany 79bn

Now if the rEU wants to put trade tariffs on after Brexit add say 10% to both figures and who is the winner?
This is why any trade negotiations after Brexit will be on our terms.
That's staggering. I had no idea how relaint on us the Germans are from a trade standpoint.
 
That kind of proves the point grunge, we did not change a thing, they just changed how the voting was done without including us and carried on with what they wanted to do.
We didn't "veto a treaty" as was claimed. What we objected to was the other 26 members using the EU bureaucracy to take actions to stabilise the Eurozone (which we aren't actually a member of directly anyway). So the other 26 just went off and did it on an inter-governmental basis, rather than through the EU mechanisms.

And we quietly dropped our objection anyway later on. That was a result of the EU members taking legal advice about Cameron's erroneous claim that he'd vetoed a treaty but that, naturally, didn't get quite as much publicity. And the only outcome was that we didn't have a say in the negotiation, which seems to negate a key point of being in.
 
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The only figure you need to worry about
Exports UK > Germany 34bn
Imports UK < Germany 79bn

Now if the rEU wants to put trade tariffs on after Brexit add say 10% to both figures and who is the winner?
This is why any trade negotiations after Brexit will be on our terms.
UK trades with the rest of the EU in goods and services, with goods the UK imports strongly outweigh exports with services it is the other way round.
We are all signatories to the WTO which deals almost exclusively with goods and the terms of trade will be virtually unchanged because of this.
Services largely fall out with WTO agreements and would have to negotiated separately, to suggest the UK would inevitably be in a strong negotiating position because of our imports is fallacious.
 
i think I'll stick with the 'In' brigade as I don't trust London to help Manchester out and I don't think that Europe will shove all it's resources down south and leave us to rot as has been the case with UK London centric powers of late

Just look at Liverpool now after the Capitol of culture investment, they have thrived.
 
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