EU referendum

EU referendum

  • In

    Votes: 503 47.9%
  • Out

    Votes: 547 52.1%

  • Total voters
    1,050
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Labour increased unemployment by 500,000 from two million before the 1997 general election to 2.5 million by 2010.
Almost one million 16-to-24-year-olds in England were classed as not in education, employment or training by the time the party left office.
Of the increase in employment levels under Labour, 72 per cent was accounted for by foreign workers. Migrant workers were imported while Britons were allowed to languish on welfare.

Ministers disastrously predicted only 13,000 arrivals from Eastern Europe when they threw open the UK’s borders in 2004. More than one million came.
A policy of mass immigration saw the foreign-born population rise by 3.6 million — equivalent to the combined population of Leeds, Birmingham, Glasgow, Sheffield and Bradford.

Just saying..
Just before the financial crash of 2008 UKunemployment was 1.72 million , or 5.5 % of the workforce.
Following the crash it rose to 2.5 million.
Selective use of statistics can detract from the overall point you're trying to make.
 
Anyone frankly who seriously uses the 2007-2009 figures to try and criticise the economic performance of any government right or left doesn't understand the most basic economic issues in the slightest.
its unicorn and fairy dust politics to try and pretend in those years anything too different could have been done. I accept the 97-07 comments and things were done wrong then in the UK and in countries like Aus where huge surpluses were frittered away in middle class welfare but once Armageddon hit there was little option for governments
Pmsl. I'd eat you alive for understanding of economic issues. It's how I earn money. You completely ignored the profligate spending during a period of sustained economic growth 97-2007 leaving no money for a rainy day. If they hadn't fucked up with that then 2008-09 needn't have been so bad as the government could have spent their savings (rather than borrow) on infrastructure projects to help the economy. Instead they had used all that money along with borrowing to bribe the over bloated public sector.
 
Ha Ha, there's even less money around since Gideon took over, he's increased the national debt by 600M!
Move on mate. It's 2016 if you hadn't noticed, not 2010.

Oh for Christ's sake, not this again. The debt will only stop growing when the deficit is reduced to zero. If the growing national debt is so important to you, then I assume you're a supporter of the Tory cuts and are disappointed they aren't cutting far enough into the public sector? Put it this way - had Labour been elected then that national debt would have increased by much much more than £600m!
 
Oh for Christ's sake, not this again. The debt will only stop growing when the deficit is reduced to zero. If the growing national debt is so important to you, then I assume you're a supporter of the Tory cuts and are disappointed they aren't cutting far enough into the public sector? Put it this way - had Labour been elected then that national debt would have increased by much much more than £600m!
What are you on about mate.
I understand perfectly the difference between the deficit and the total debt.
If Jeffrey had eliminated the deficit as he promised by 2015 the total national debt would have been about 1.3 trillion as opposed to 1.6 trillion it currently stands at.
He revised his targets to eliminate the deficit by 2020 and it now looks as if he will miss that target.
 
Oh for Christ's sake, not this again. The debt will only stop growing when the deficit is reduced to zero. If the growing national debt is so important to you, then I assume you're a supporter of the Tory cuts and are disappointed they aren't cutting far enough into the public sector? Put it this way - had Labour been elected then that national debt would have increased by much much more than £600m!

No this is not correct. It appears that you have fallen for politicians' soundbites rather than any sound economics, but if it was economics then it was the wrong economics. Most people have the idea of a government's budget as being analogous to that of a household budget. This is an incorrect and totally misleading idea of the government's true role in the economy. It is more to correct to say that a government's role, especially one with its own central bank and ability to print money, is that of bank. Banks are never debt free, if they are, they dont make money and they cant expand. A government can only sufficiently service the debt and keep the economy working by running a deficit, under those conditions, you should get sustained growth and take in revenue and pay it off faster than the interest accumulates. Otherwise the taxpot will continue shrinking and the government will have to up borrowing rates or the private sector will take on debt and when debt levels are already too high then it only leads down the path towards another economic crisis.

watch this video, it explains perfectly. Oh and this guy predicted the 2008 crisis.

 
What are you on about mate.
I understand perfectly the difference between the deficit and the total debt.
If Jeffrey had eliminated the deficit as he promised by 2015 the total national debt would have been about 1.3 trillion as opposed to 1.6 trillion it currently stands at.
He revised his targets to eliminate the deficit by 2020 and it now looks as if he will miss that target.

I appreciate it's not really a debate for this thread. If he had reduced the deficit to zero by 2015, that would have meant even harsher cuts. Is that something you wanted?
 
Pmsl. I'd eat you alive for understanding of economic issues. It's how I earn money. You completely ignored the profligate spending during a period of sustained economic growth 97-2007 leaving no money for a rainy day. If they hadn't fucked up with that then 2008-09 needn't have been so bad as the government could have spent their savings (rather than borrow) on infrastructure projects to help the economy. Instead they had used all that money along with borrowing to bribe the over bloated public sector.
Same applies to Gideon in 2010-2015.
He let his borrowing targets rip to ensure a general election victory.
If there's another crash then he also will guilty of "leaving no money for a rainy day".
 
Pmsl. I'd eat you alive for understanding of economic issues. It's how I earn money. You completely ignored the profligate spending during a period of sustained economic growth 97-2007 leaving no money for a rainy day. If they hadn't fucked up with that then 2008-09 needn't have been so bad as the government could have spent their savings (rather than borrow) on infrastructure projects to help the economy. Instead they had used all that money along with borrowing to bribe the over bloated public sector.
Frankly I very very much doubt it, but honestly It's pretty irellevant , you could be another Harvard educated nobel laureate, a modern day Adam Smith - in your own mind and in your forum persona and good luck to you if you believe it - that's half the battle.

you could also claim to have a 16 inch cock and a fine golden head of hair with 30 inch biceps and I would have little desire to verify.

If you were so knowledgable you would know just how wrong "genius world leading economists" often are, you would also know how long major infrastructure takes to have a serious impact fiscally.

Where I won't disagree is that governments in the 90's and noughties of all political hues wasted huge amounts of money in frivolous tax cuts and frivolous spending and if all the hay is eaten in the summer there is nothing left for winter.
 
Same applies to Gideon in 2010-2015.
He let his borrowing targets rip to ensure a general election victory.
If there's another crash then he also will guilty of "leaving no money for a rainy day".
Don't argue with a self confessed genius he will eat you got elevenses if he has room left
 
I appreciate it's not really a debate for this thread. If he had reduced the deficit to zero by 2015, that would have meant even harsher cuts. Is that something you wanted?
No I wouldn't.
But he cut too much 2010 to 2012, crashed the economy, then had to borrow like aLabour chancellor on steroids 2012 -2015 to reverse his previous cuts and manufacture a recovery.
Had he managed the whole cycle of borrowing better then the deficit could have been eliminated without harsher cuts.
 
Damned if we do, damned if we don't.

That's the sad reality of the decision, whatever happens will affect the nation for decades and irreversibly so if we are ultimately governed by the EU bureaucrats.
 
Damned if we do, damned if we don't.

That's the sad reality of the decision, whatever happens will affect the nation for decades and irreversibly so if we are ultimately governed by the EU bureaucrats.
The good news is most of the impact will be the same in or out long term as it won't change the Ponzi scheme or who the country is run for too much either way.
 
In the words of Liam Byrne I’m afraid there is no money, Good Luck...

Of course what Tory fan Bois don't know is that Byrne was recalling a similar note left by Tory Reginald Maudling to his Labour successor James Callaghan in 1964: "Good luck, old cock ... Sorry to leave it in such a mess."
 
Aren’t the markets getting into a bit of a tizzy about nothing? After all, if Britain leaves the European Union, they will still have to be a member of the EFTA and therefore will still have to abide by European Union laws and pay EU levies.

http://www.efta.int/eea/eu-programmes/application-finances/eea-efta-budget

Why would leaving the EU make any difference to the UK economy, exept for the appearance that Britain is no longer under Brussel’s thumb? Because Brexit will only mean that Britain loses its right to vote on laws that it will have to abide by.

The You tube clip is a very enlightening look at the EU Agenda. If you can’t spare 35 minutes fast forward to 15 mins in and stick with it for 10 mins.
I can confirm that the unelected regional assemblies have been operational for at least 7 years.

 
The Hungarian referendum will be more interesting, especially as the result is a foregone conclusion.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ban-will-call-referendum-on-eu-refugee-quotas

Borders and fences are going up all over the EU and Brussels will be powerless to do anything about it.

The EU is becoming irrelevant because of changing circumstances. Member states never really cared about unity but only what they could get of membership, and as the EU lurches from crisis to crisis this is becoming ever more obvious.
 
The Hungarian referendum will be more interesting, especially as the result is a foregone conclusion.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ban-will-call-referendum-on-eu-refugee-quotas

Borders and fences are going up all over the EU and Brussels will be powerless to do anything about it.

The EU is becoming irrelevant because of changing circumstances. Member states never really cared about unity but only what they could get of membership, and as the EU lurches from crisis to crisis this is becoming ever more obvious.
Indeed.

"Nobody has asked the European people so far whether they support, accept, or reject the mandatory migrant quotas. The government is responding to public sentiment now: we Hungarians think introducing resettlement quotas for migrants without the backing of the people equals an abuse of power."

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-...-can-anyone-else-decide-hungarians-who-we-liv
 
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