EU referendum

EU referendum

  • In

    Votes: 503 47.9%

  • Out

    Votes: 547 52.1%
  • Total voters
    1,050
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AlgarveBlu said:
Does anyone know if Bluemoon called the last general election correctly with their online poll? That's quite a decent sample of 560 people

If so maybe we can apply to be official pollsters with Yougov and Mori.
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I seem to think that we actually called it quite accurately. Far better than all the professional polls which I was dead set on, and were showing a Lab coalition win.

I'm a Federalist so obviously will be voting for In but the campaign in general is a little bit all over the place. The problem as I can see it is that nobody really knows what will happen if we leave the EU and how good or bad things will get in terms of economic impact. Due to this there's no real message that is resonating with normal people.

The thing is though, leaving the EU makes perfect common sense. We live in a world which is driven by conflict - we're told by some parts of the media that radical and extreme Islam is coming to invade Europe. They will plant bombs in our cities, they will rape and torture our women and children, they will demand that we follow the laws of the Qu'ran and make our Western European culture disappear. If this is the reality that you accept then leaving the EU in order to protect and police our own borders is the sanest thing in the entire world. If that IS a reality, you'd have to be suicidal or have your head in the sand to vote any other way.

I fully understand the people who are voting Out as part of a cultural immigration reasoning. I just don't perceive reality in the same way as they do and think that the dangers to our civilisation, culture and safety from radical Islam is overblown in the same way that Communism was in the 1960s. I also think that we're a stronger force together and that we shouldn't let a few maniacs in the Middle East force us to leave a union of European nations out of some fear or protection instinct even if our partners are weak at times.
 
Interesting post - I don't think we've heard enough from the remain group on here and it's probably because as soon as they rear their head up they seem to get battered like in one of those fair ground games with the mallet and the mole that pops up everywhere which is a shame.

I too come at this from a different angle but in my mind people can look at facts and those are the facts as to how the EU has conducted it's affairs in the past. Not sure what your image of a federalist Europe is? but I assume federalism involves a degree of universal assistance and all I can see is the decimation of communities around the periphery (western Europe) governments here can't devalue their currency so they have to embark upon internal devaluation i.e driving wages lower, cutting jobs and ultimately the displacement of people - the euro has led to hundreds of thousands of Portuguese heading for the UK and Switzerland and I know the vast majority don't want to leave their family and friends but when the government has a gun held to its head there's nothing you can do about it.

The UK will not change this from the inside as remain campaigners suggest; they will change this by sticking two fingers up to Brussels. I have an Italian passport as well with family in the north and south and I am fairly sure if a referendum was held there they would vote out too - this is a good read on the subject http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business...tween-the-euro-and-its-own-economic-survival/
 
SWP's back said:
What do you think of that video Ealing. I'm guessing the fact you haven't commented on means it was uneasy watching for you.
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Hadn't watched it tbh, it's a bit Howard Marx and seems a lot more a man trying to show how clever he is than make a serious point, but it will be different things to different people I am sure some people seem almost as outraged by this as as the outrage produced by someone being outraged about someone else's outrage about the police apologising due to the outrage of an terrorism exercise
 
AlgarveBlu said:
The UK will not change this from the inside as remain campaigners suggest; they will change this by sticking two fingers up to Brussels. I have an Italian passport as well with family in the north and south and I am fairly sure if a referendum was held there they would vote out too - this is a good read on the subject http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business...tween-the-euro-and-its-own-economic-survival/
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A very good portrayal of just how much damage the EU is doing in the real world, and I suspect most of the other member states are in a similar position.
 
EalingBlue2 said:
Hadn't watched it tbh, it's a bit Howard Marx and seems a lot more a man trying to show how clever he is than make a serious point, but it will be different things to different people I am sure some people seem almost as outraged by this as as the outrage produced by someone being outraged about someone else's outrage about the police apologising due to the outrage of an terrorism exercise
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In other words you can't defend it and the way TTIP is being "debated" so you deflect.

Pathetic.
 
blueonblue said:
A very good portrayal of just how much damage the EU is doing in the real world, and I suspect most of the other member states are in a similar position.
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That fact is that Britain may by the keystone of the EU falling, with all the other members having majorities of people wanting out.

The upshot of that is that any figures stating the UK would be harmed in the long term could well be bollocks. A Brexit could lead to an EU that was originally envisaged, with free trade rather than a Federalist nightmare.
 
Damocles said:
I seem to think that we actually called it quite accurately. Far better than all the professional polls which I was dead set on, and were showing a Lab coalition win.

I'm a Federalist so obviously will be voting for In but the campaign in general is a little bit all over the place. The problem as I can see it is that nobody really knows what will happen if we leave the EU and how good or bad things will get in terms of economic impact. Due to this there's no real message that is resonating with normal people.

The thing is though, leaving the EU makes perfect common sense. We live in a world which is driven by conflict - we're told by some parts of the media that radical and extreme Islam is coming to invade Europe. They will plant bombs in our cities, they will rape and torture our women and children, they will demand that we follow the laws of the Qu'ran and make our Western European culture disappear. If this is the reality that you accept then leaving the EU in order to protect and police our own borders is the sanest thing in the entire world. If that IS a reality, you'd have to be suicidal or have your head in the sand to vote any other way.

I fully understand the people who are voting Out as part of a cultural immigration reasoning. I just don't perceive reality in the same way as they do and think that the dangers to our civilisation, culture and safety from radical Islam is overblown in the same way that Communism was in the 1960s. I also think that we're a stronger force together and that we shouldn't let a few maniacs in the Middle East force us to leave a union of European nations out of some fear or protection instinct even if our partners are weak at times.
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That's a fair comment. I assume you will be campaigning for a reduced Westminster if we adopt federalism? The cost of running both Westminster and Brussels will be no joke. What's the point of having them both? President Cameron can run the show from his Brussels office and communicate with a group of 'councillors' left behind in Westminster to wind up Big Ben every now and again.
 
YPhrunts said:
That's a fair comment. I assume you will be campaigning for a reduced Westminster if we adopt federalism? The cost of running both Westminster and Brussels will be no joke. What's the point of having them both? President Cameron can run the show from his Brussels office and communicate with a group of 'councillors' left behind in Westminster to wind up Big Ben every now and again.
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Of course, the point of a single central Government would be to reduce national level in the same way that central Government now reduces local council. It's just that our local councils would be regional -> national -> central rather than what it is now in regional -> national <--> central
 
SWP's back said:
That fact is that Britain may by the keystone of the EU falling, with all the other members having majorities of people wanting out.

The upshot of that is that any figures stating the UK would be harmed in the long term could well be bollocks. A Brexit could lead to an EU that was originally envisaged, with free trade rather than a Federalist nightmare.
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What will they do with all those fantastic huge plush Buildings and offices in Brussels built to massage the Bildeberg ideal?
Now if they were all working out of garden sheds then I could support the ideal...maybe.
 
Damocles said:
Of course, the point of a single central Government would be to reduce national level in the same way that central Government now reduces local council. It's just that our local councils would be regional -> national -> central rather than what it is now in regional -> national <--> central
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Do see the EU as a stable platform to do this ?
 
AlgarveBlu said:
Does anyone know if Bluemoon called the last general election correctly with their online poll? That's quite a decent sample of 560 people

If so maybe we can apply to be official pollsters with Yougov and Mori.
Click to expand...

I really don't think the two are comparable. In the general election you didn't have a load of shit scared Ex Pats thinking that they would be kicked out of Spain if either side won. The Scottish vote will also be a factor as the EU was not on their agenda last time. Also we didn't have a biased BBC pushing one side and trying it's hardest to give us the impression that it's impartial. So I don't think there are any polls that we can look back at and see clues. Look at other football forums and the vote is mainly to stay so it's about as clear as mud I'm afraid. Look at the Liverpool poll and they asked how people living outside the UK would vote and just about all of them said they would vote to stay. The Ex Pats are on the whole terrified of an independent Britain.
 
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When the scots had their referendum the rest of the Uk Did everything they could to keep the union together. Especially the English government. We offered them devo max to help appease the situation including amongst that delegation of lots of powers which gave them a lot of self rule to allow people to have more power and autonomy but recognising together is a good thing.

What gets me about the Eu is they are doing absolutely nothing to help appease the undecided vote in the uk . They have effectively rejected Cameron's demands and have the arrogance to even say we will vote on the watered down proposals after the uk referendum vote, what use is that if we vote out?

Nobody from the Eu states or the commission other than those idiots the uk already rejected kinnock and Mandelson have commented on the strength of the European Union. It's pathetic really. They are too busy discussing the size of bananas and crop rotation in Lithuania.

Btw those two rejects definitely want to stay in the Eu, as whilst they may have presented themselves as ordinary men of the people are now becoming millionaires gassing in the corridors of Brussels. You could not make it up.....
 
Helmet Cole said:
I think that's how a lot of outers feel tbh, and the in campaign is misjudging the outers by so heavily playing the economic card. Even if we were slightly financially worse off out (no one knows) many of us could live with that because we are more bothered about the implications of the EU overall.
Sadly the undecided folk will probably be swayed by scare stories regarding the amount of cash in their pockets, so its probably not a bad tactic and will lead to an in vote. That's democracy folks.
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The inners, beef eating surrender monkeys
 
blueonblue said:
So the BBC has not been given millions by the EU ?
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ah right, the bbc was given 2m by the eu to fund a research project into 3d and HD, and gets nearly 4 billion from the licence fee, but because of this 2m it has disregarded all of its principles and is now doing the eu's bidding across the board

think before you type
 
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