EU referendum

EU referendum

  • In

    Votes: 503 47.9%

  • Out

    Votes: 547 52.1%
  • Total voters
    1,050
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johnnytapia said:
Your point about strike action has been rendered obsolete by draconian measures introduced by this parliament. It now requires much, much more than a simple majority to get a strike called. Funnily enough, the same criterion doesn't apply to voting in/out your MP. Heaven forfend that the politicians have to abide by the same rules dished out to those in the workforce.

On this debate, the fact that the very best Labour can put up is Angela Eagles shows how weak the "in" campaign is.
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Yes I know, but it was a simple illustration about a democrate show of hands on any topic, not really about strikes. Could just as easily be what colour uniform McDonalds workers should have!

We were discussing the Labour stance on this earlier, and although this isn't about party politics, a few us felt that Labour's relative silence on the subject could be quite deliberate - keeping their heads down. Pure speculation of course, but it's very much the Dave / Boris / Farage show so far with Corbyn in hibernation.
 
FanchesterCity said:
It's the same thing on a grander scale though. Those southerners in Kent voting for something without caring about the effects of shipbuilders in the North, or farmers in East Anglia etc.

On the one hand, we probably share a lot similar issues with Germany and possibly France, but the characteristics of Greece are very different to us so it's hard to agree on common policies.
On the other hand though, 'overall' we have an awful lot more in common as Europeans that we do with the Middle East or Africa say, and in that sense, we can act as one 'union' with relatively shared values and needs.

My worry is that with such large economic superpowers as USA and China, individually we'll Germany, France, UK etc will be picked off / bullied. Together we stand half a chance. Right now it feels like a reluctant union with our neighbours, but that it could improve. Even if it doesn't improve, it can still be effective.

Then there's the spectre of increased terrorism too, and I fear we have to unite with our European counterparts to better tackle that too.
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Re terrorism - I'm no expert on EU law but why can't the current agreement/ways of working remain if the appetite is there, which in sure it is in this day and age?
 
Gaylord du Bois said:
Yep. Exactly that. It means that local authorities have the ability to set up an in house subsidiary to cover their care criteria. Once it's 'out of house' so to speak they draw on a cheap foreign labour force (and agencies) and use this as a way of undermining and intimidating workers into forgoing their current T&Cs.
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I'll play devils advocate...

Is that the EU's fault, or is that simply an employer exploiting the situation, and isn't the proper corrective action to prevent the employer being able to exploit that situation, not inhibit the workers?
 
FanchesterCity said:
There is, and it existed LONG before the EU.
I don't deny what you're saying does happen, and it's massive influenced by the availability of labour, but it's always happened. When jobs are scarce, the employer rules, when there's shortage of labour, the employee rules. Supply and demand.

You're saying that the influx is immigrants is artificially inflating the availability of labour right?
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A lot of European workers are essential to social care and other services. If some employers are exploiting this then I've got sympathy for the Council workers.

In terms of the wider economy, I rember ten years ago it was a real struggle to get a plumber. One came round to my place to look at a job and said he wouldn't touch the work because it wasn't an insurance job. There were quite a few piss takers because of shortages of skilled labour!
It was only ten years ago and thankfully things are much improved now!
 
Blue Hefner said:
Re terrorism - I'm no expert on EU law but why can't the current agreement/ways of working remain if the appetite is there, which in sure it is in this day and age?
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I hope they can, but I'm looking further down the line when we might have to share a lot more resources too. Much more of a proper EU community. not just an economic one.
 
inchy14 said:
But surely that money was given to them by us in the first place!!
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Or what the French put in. Or what the Germans put in.
But yes, we all put in, and we take out (hopefully with benefits).

Depending on who you believe, we're getting our money's worth, or we aren't.
 
All 3 on Remain side constantly attacking Boris, leaving Leadsom and Stuart to dominate the night.
Bit dumb.
 
Silva_Spell said:
All 3 on Remain side constantly attacking Boris, leaving Leadsom and Stuart to dominate the night.
Bit dumb.
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He is the main man, the other two carry little weight. He's very charismatic and he's a vote winner - same as Farage. You're right of course, he's their target, and it's wrong on both sides. They attack personalities as well as policies.
Without Boris and Farage, leave would be much worse off. Strength of personality is so powerful.
 
Fuck trying to sign Laporte and stones, get boris in at centre half, cool as fuck under pressure from the bullies, and his two sidekicks were even better, l know fuck all about politics and still don't but I enjoyed that debate
 
FanchesterCity said:
I'll play devils advocate...

Is that the EU's fault, or is that simply an employer exploiting the situation, and isn't the proper corrective action to prevent the employer being able to exploit that situation, not inhibit the workers?
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The employer exploits the open door policy. Any transient migrant workforce will increasingly exploit all available avenues afforded by the policy.
 
Just another thought - some of the big companies of the world, and extremely pervasive ones - Google, Apple etc have bigger economies than some nations! There's nothing wrong in that, but we should be mindful of it, and the power that some of them can exert. The EU has stood up to some of them. I applaud that.
 
This may have been answered before (I dunno, I'm not reading 740 odd pages to find out!) and it was touched upon a little tonight, but for the last couple of days I've been wondering why Sturgeon, who wants the Scots to break away from the UK, wants the UK to stay; what's her game?

Surely she should be pleased this is happening? A chance to forge new links to Europe, but she's sh*tting at the chance of it going through!!

Why...?
 
FanchesterCity said:
Or what the French put in. Or what the Germans put in.
But yes, we all put in, and we take out (hopefully with benefits).

Depending on who you believe, we're getting our money's worth, or we aren't.
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So the our money gets spent inngermany or France etc... I'd rather we spent our own.
grunge said:
Possibly, but it's money Manchester got that it wouldn't have if it was just the gov paying up.
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As you just said, possibly but you don't know that as a fact.
 
grunge said:
Possibly, but it's money Manchester got that it wouldn't have if it was just the gov paying up.
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The money was not 21 million. it was equal to UK investment up to 21 million. and that money was considerably less than we pay. It was also not a one off gift. It was allocated from a fund for just that purpose.
 
Mike N said:
I wonder how many millions went to the EU in the time it took to re-build the centre of Manchester?
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Even the most cynical anti-EU person would have to admit that we aren't entirely just tossing money into a black hole and getting nothing back. But what we get back is not so easy to measure (nor is it for any of the members). The trade improvements and easier trade inside it are very difficult to put a price on. I suppose that's partly why there's so much scope for people to argue over 'facts'. If you renovate you house and it increases in value by 100K, it's very hard to say how much the new windows added to the value, only how much they cost. And if house prices are rising anyway, it's even harder to know how much was down to renovation, and how much would have happened anyway.
 
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