EU referendum

[Leech]

Who Is claiming that this is their "main point of reasoning for leaving the EU."? Can you point me to any quote?

Eh? Did you even watch the campaign video broadcast at 5.55pm on BBC2 earlier that we've been talking about for the past half a day?

 

[smudgedj]

Headlines in many of tomorrow's papers...

If there is a vote to leave there will be a post Brexit Emergency Budget and taxes for everyone will rise...

Talk about blackmail and scare tactics!

Any lie will do.
Not learning are they.

 

[BlueHammer85]

I agree mate....I have no issue with immigration if people move here, work hard and pay their way just like the people you mentioned......the other side to this, is that we are also in the top 5 countries in Europe with our own nationals living in other EU countries...UK have over 1.4mil living aboard in the EU....with countries like Germany only just ahead of us...seems like brits enjoy "freedom of movement" as much as anyone......

The problem is population increase in this country - yes immigration has benefited the country economically - but what good is that if schools, doctors, hospitals and other public services are too full ? We can keep saying 'build more' .. But where does it end ?

Surely there would come a time where this country can not cope with so many people - and in certain places that is happening now, we have an ageing population and other factors but the fact remains, immigration is putting a burden on our public services and having very little control of our borders is worrying.

I'm a remainer on the EU. but when it comes to immigration and population increase we don't have a proper answer. Just that immigration is 'good' for the country. That doesn't answer people's concerns.

 

[BigJoe#1]

Any lie will do.
Not learning are they.

I agree except, the trouble is he is the chancellor and knows he's going to be kicked out if we leave so he is literally scaring people to vote remain!

 

[geoff clipp]

For all its faults I can't see any real benefits that would come about from us leaving the EU. The thought of what will be unleashed on us by Gove, Johnson, IDS and Patel etc is really worrying to me.

It's so frustrating seeing how much immigration continues to dominate the debate when it's the one thing that probably won't change. What is it that people arent understanding about this? We'll most likely continue to be held to those requirements as a condition of staying part of the single market. Meanwhile, whilst cheap foreign labour remains available we'll have Priti Patel as our employment minister dismantling our employment rights left right and centre. Do not underestimate this woman. This is the woman who was paid £165/hr by British American Tobacco to help cover up the fact they'd been paying Bangladeshi workers £15 a month. She's been very clear on where she stands with regards to the protection currently offered to workers via EU regulations. I can't help but think that people that feel the most fucked over at the moment are the ones who will feel it even worse once we leave.

Irrespective of what you think about it, we live in and are reliant on an increasingly globalised economy and immigration isnt going away. We have more immigration from outside of the EU anyway. If it's so harmful why hasn't the government clamped down on that?

I appreciate that the EU can often appear to act too much in the interest of banks and corporations but tbh, it's the UK government that are the biggest cheerleaders on that front. Whatever concessions we think the EU makes to big business will be miles worse under a government led by Boris Johnson.

 

[smudgedj]

I agree except, the trouble is he is the chancellor and knows he's going to be kicked out if we leave so he is literally scaring people to vote remain!

Well they will all be at it this week, chancellor tomorrow, bank of England on Thursday (urgent warning on the pound, the current account deficit, and interest rates) then the EU overlords at the weekend (Britain is too small, too weak and too stupid to exercise any level of independence. Puny Brits)

 

[TRUE BLUE NO1]

The problem is population increase in this country - yes immigration has benefited the country economically - but what good is that if schools, doctors, hospitals and other public services are too full ? We can keep saying 'build more' .. But where does it end ?

Surely there would come a time where this country can not cope with so many people - and in certain places that is happening now, we have an ageing population and other factors but the fact remains, immigration is putting a burden on our public services and having very little control of our borders is worrying.

I'm a remainer on the EU. but when it comes to immigration and population increase we don't have a proper answer. Just that immigration is 'good' for the country. That doesn't answer people's concerns.

I agree....and like you I'm a "remainer".....I also have concerns but feel that "if" these new agreements on immigration to stop people claiming benefit are ever given a chance, they might help....they wont fix the problem alone but will make us less "inviting" for people to come over for a free ride..

I have lots of concerns over leaving but the main one, is that I dont feel we should try to fix immigration by risking the economy....I'm all for finding away to improve the system but this seems like cutting off your nose to spite your face? (if that makes sense?;) thanks again for your comments...

 

[TRUE BLUE NO1]

For all its faults I can't see any real benefits that would come about from us leaving the EU. The thought of what will be unleashed on us by Gove, Johnson, IDS and Patel etc is really worrying to me.

It's so frustrating seeing how much immigration continues to dominate the debate when it's the one thing that probably won't change. What is it that people arent understanding about this? We'll most likely continue to be held to those requirements as a condition of staying part of the single market. Meanwhile, whilst cheap foreign labour remains available we'll have Priti Patel as our employment minister dismantling our employment rights left right and centre. Do not underestimate this woman. This is the woman who was paid £165/hr by British American Tobacco to help cover up the fact they'd been paying Bangladeshi workers £15 a month. She's been very clear on where she stands with regards to the protection currently offered to workers via EU regulations. I can't help but think that people that feel the most fucked over at the moment are the ones who will feel it even worse once we leave.

Irrespective of what you think about it, we live in and are reliant on an increasingly globalised economy and immigration isnt going away. We have more immigration from outside of the EU anyway. If it's so harmful why hasn't the government clamped down on that?

I appreciate that the EU can often appear to act too much in the interest of banks and corporations but tbh, it's the UK government that are the biggest cheerleaders on that front. Whatever concessions we think the EU makes to big business will be miles worse under a government led by Boris Johnson.

I agree.....You make some excellent points!....

I also dont believe (and this is just my opinion)that the British Government will say no to cheaper tariffs on 44% of our export just to stop freedom of movement...My opinion is that we will agree some sort of "diluted arrangement" to get the best possible deal we can, if we leave and wont see as much change as what people think....

I just dont know of many "European" countries that have been able to agree "free movement of goods" without some type of "freedom of movement"..even those EU countries that want to put caps on immigration, the EU is trying to block...Again, just my opinion but I feel all this with the EU is just deflecting from the real issues at home...

To the "leaves"....no need to throw any of this back in my face...its just my opinion and nothing else!;)

thanks for your comments..

 

[Credo]

I agree....and like you I'm a "remainer".....I also have concerns but feel that "if" these new agreements on immigration to stop people claiming benefit are ever given a chance, they might help....they wont fix the problem alone but will make us less "inviting" for people to come over for a free ride..

I have lots of concerns over leaving but the main one, is that I dont feel we should try to fix immigration by risking the economy....I'm all for finding away to improve the system but this seems like cutting off your nose to spite your face? (if that makes sense?;) thanks again for your comments...

Life pre 1975 was fine. We are the fifth biggest economy in the world, the second in Europe. The world and Europe will still do business with us. Staying in means that we are heading for political and fiscal union. Ruled by bureaucracy and not democracy. Europe carrying on with a German France axis. To get hope vote leave. There is no hope to rule our country again if we stay.

 

[Credo]

The problem is population increase in this country - yes immigration has benefited the country economically - but what good is that if schools, doctors, hospitals and other public services are too full ? We can keep saying 'build more' .. But where does it end ?

Surely there would come a time where this country can not cope with so many people - and in certain places that is happening now, we have an ageing population and other factors but the fact remains, immigration is putting a burden on our public services and having very little control of our borders is worrying.

I'm a remainer on the EU. but when it comes to immigration and population increase we don't have a proper answer. Just that immigration is 'good' for the country. That doesn't answer people's concerns.

It does not answer people's concerns. I do not have a problem with people overseas coming here, but this article does raise concern.

The Glasgow primary without a SINGLE Scottish pupil: 181 of school's 222 children are from either Romania or Slovakia

• Annette Street School in Glasgow has mainly Eastern European children
• Headteacher is fundraising for games and extra classes to help pupils learn
• Four out of five young students are from the families of Roma immigrants

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...kian-Asian-Romanian-pupils.html#ixzz4BbVQ1KTr

 

[Cheadle_hulmeBlue]

That the beauty of living in a country with a free vote.

I have no problem with your view as at least it has some substance.'I just don't get the ones who are voting out for immigration alone but can't really understand why and can't see any negatives to voting out.

Food will become expense to import, holidays will rocket to Europe, prices of already expensive beer will rise. Passport queues will be longer.

The business owners may well be paying minimum wages and these are in jobs that a lot of our younger workers don't want. Putting Sauce on a lasagne in a food factory for example. Not great for 8 hours!

My barber is a Muslim who came from Pakistan. He is self employed, he is a top bloke apart from being a rag but he likes a good chat about city too.

I get my butties at lunchtime from a shop in Bolton where they work 6am to 10pm with one day off each a week. They are a friendly pair. They too are Muslim.

I was speaking to my taxi driver the other day and he took me home,'was happy to take less than the fare as he thought i was scrambling around.'he was an Iraqi Kurd who we helped when Saddam was running him out of his country. All his family are in different countries.

That's the side of immigration I see.'hard workers who have come here, learnt the language and built their own businesses. I see that as hard work and a plus to our society not a negative.

no worries mate i respect your opinion, I'm getting sick of all the arguing going on in this debate.

you say you haven't been affected by it, but do you live in the area/street where all the immigrants are moving into? are you on minimum wage ? trying to get a council house? because its having a huge effect on a lot of those areas.

i can't see holiday prices rocketing, places like spain and greece rely so heavily on brits it would damage their own industries. passport ques isn't really a major issue for me, as long as we have some control. in some cases young people dont want those jobs, but lots of times they are never offered to brits in the first place. I'm 22 just finished uni and whilst looking for work i dont mind doing that kind of work. difference being, i can't get on the council house waiting list and even if i do i wont get anywhere for a few years.

immigration is fine, ( huge irish links in ym family) but i think it needs control behind it. hard workers yes, but whats happened recently is thousands of very low skilled works are coming in, and doing jobs british people could do/ want to do. what i see near where i live, is lots of families coming here getting houses and benefits, barely speak a word of english. huge new schools are having to be built, more traffic, new houses everywhere. its not all eu immigration, but there are huge divides especially in manchester between communities.
do you think 180,000 immigrants coming in every year is sustainable ?

 

[halfcenturyup]

this will see some serious head wobbling on here. Suspiciously perfect timing as well

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36526158

I am sure they will find a way to reverse it once the vote is over ......

 

[Credo]

78% Agree with you to leave.
484829 voters. Share your opinion!
Vote on Daily Telegraph website tonight.

 

[Credo]

For all its faults I can't see any real benefits that would come about from us leaving the EU. The thought of what will be unleashed on us by Gove, Johnson, IDS and Patel etc is really worrying to me.

It's so frustrating seeing how much immigration continues to dominate the debate when it's the one thing that probably won't change. What is it that people arent understanding about this? We'll most likely continue to be held to those requirements as a condition of staying part of the single market. Meanwhile, whilst cheap foreign labour remains available we'll have Priti Patel as our employment minister dismantling our employment rights left right and centre. Do not underestimate this woman. This is the woman who was paid £165/hr by British American Tobacco to help cover up the fact they'd been paying Bangladeshi workers £15 a month. She's been very clear on where she stands with regards to the protection currently offered to workers via EU regulations. I can't help but think that people that feel the most fucked over at the moment are the ones who will feel it even worse once we leave.

Irrespective of what you think about it, we live in and are reliant on an increasingly globalised economy and immigration isnt going away. We have more immigration from outside of the EU anyway. If it's so harmful why hasn't the government clamped down on that?

I appreciate that the EU can often appear to act too much in the interest of banks and corporations but tbh, it's the UK government that are the biggest cheerleaders on that front. Whatever concessions we think the EU makes to big business will be miles worse under a government led by Boris Johnson.

If we remain in we are heading for political and fiscal Union. The EU will not stay where it is today, but will keep drawing decision making powers away from nation states and into central bureaucracy.

 

[yerwot?]

the deciding factor in the poll will be the millions who are royally pissed off with politics in general, politicians in particular. There has been a 'disconnect' between Westminster and large parts of the electorate for many years, "they are all as bad as each other " is often heard, so in the current climate, people who would not normally vote could be swayed to by a single issue, which is immigration.
It is an open goal for the 'outers', whose backers in the press have been campaigning against the EU for years, with lurid headlines about terrorists walking into Britain, immigrants stealing jobs, being given preference for social housing etc. Sadly there is no platform for the remain camp to dispute the issue, the press is overwhelmingly right-wing brexit. Some of the comments on this thread illustrate how successful this propaganda has been.
What-ever happens, the country needs to ditch the obsolete FPTP election process that has propped up the bubble of Westminster with it's gravy train mentality, unelected second house, safe-seats etc.

 

[halfcenturyup]

If we remain in we are heading for political and fiscal Union. The EU will not stay where it is today, but will keep drawing decision making powers away from nation states and into central bureaucracy.

That would be the only issue for me as well, if I was going to vote which I am not as I have been out of the country for 35 years and am not coming back.

We joined an economic bloc with no talk of a federal Europe. If there had been we would never have joined. We were naive. This time everyone knows full well the objective is integration and they will do whatever it takes to get there. So if you are happy with that vote in. If you aren't, vote out. Simple. The economy may be bumpy for a while, but it will sort itself out. It's the price to be paid for making the wrong decision 40 years ago.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

Or as George W Bush said: "err .... you can't fool me twice"

 

[Millwallawayveteran1988]

no worries mate i respect your opinion, I'm getting sick of all the arguing going on in this debate.

you say you haven't been affected by it, but do you live in the area/street where all the immigrants are moving into? are you on minimum wage ? trying to get a council house? because its having a huge effect on a lot of those areas.

i can't see holiday prices rocketing, places like spain and greece rely so heavily on brits it would damage their own industries. passport ques isn't really a major issue for me, as long as we have some control. in some cases young people dont want those jobs, but lots of times they are never offered to brits in the first place. I'm 22 just finished uni and whilst looking for work i dont mind doing that kind of work. difference being, i can't get on the council house waiting list and even if i do i wont get anywhere for a few years.

immigration is fine, ( huge irish links in ym family) but i think it needs control behind it. hard workers yes, but whats happened recently is thousands of very low skilled works are coming in, and doing jobs british people could do/ want to do. what i see near where i live, is lots of families coming here getting houses and benefits, barely speak a word of english. huge new schools are having to be built, more traffic, new houses everywhere. its not all eu immigration, but there are huge divides especially in manchester between communities.
do you think 180,000 immigrants coming in every year is sustainable ?

To be fair, no I don't live in an area/street that is affected directly so I accept its easier for me to say it doesn't affect me and I can see how starting out and trying to find work and get on the property cycle whether that be buying or renting could be harder with more people applying for limited supply.

I also accept that the risk of more people coming into the country is high, especially if Turkey eventually join the EU but I still think on balance the risks of leaving are greater than the risks of staying and that for me is why I will be voting to stay in next week.

I think it is widely accepted that the pound will fall against the euro and probably dollar too should be vote to leave. The experts in my field who deal with this daily are predicting 1/1
Or close to it on the pound/euro. This makes holidays more expensive because the hotel that Thomas Cook/individual were buying for £300 (€420 a year ago) is now costing £420.
The £100 a day budget you had for spending money (€140 last year) is now costing £140 a day! If it does go that low, the week in the sun is now £400 dearer than last year unless you compromise on standard and cut back on the spending or go somewhere where the fall of the £ isn't as great. Pensioners/ex pats who quite happily live in the sun in these countries each year will suffer with this too as their pensions will be paid in £ and they will then need to convert to €. Their cost of living will therefore increase.

On the flip side, This benefits British Exporters who will see demand for their goods increase due to more competitive pricing and so it could have positive effect short term on that side of things. However companies who import could have problems and this could lead to job security issues.

The risk of terrorist atrocities is already high in this country because of the warped views of a very small minority but most of them already live here and are British. The 7/7 bombers were all British. There will be more atrocities but our security services are up there with the best in the world and our very tight gun control means it isn't easy to find the weaponary needed to commit these acts. I suppose where there is a will there is a way but again I have found most people who have settled here over the years to be friendly.

Whilst I see the arguments, I think it's safer for all concerned to stay in though I'm sure many will disagree.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

For me immigration is not a huge problem. In my town, we have large population of Polish people and I have yet to be affected in any way whatsoever by this. The business owners I speak to say they are very good workers. Where's the problem there?

Do you work in an office and have a desk? If so, your employer will presumably have enough desks and office space for all employees. Now suppose the firm takes on loads more people but doesn't increase the amount of office space or desks. Then there aren't sufficient resources to go round and if you don't get in early enough, you can't do your job. With free movement of labour, people are going to move to countries where wages are higher and where there are jobs. But public resources like medical services and schools are finite. That's the problem.

I've no problem with immigration per se and, for me, it's not the key issue but it has to be manageable and take into account pressure on scarce resources.

 

[sir baconface]

Eh? Did you even watch the campaign video broadcast at 5.55pm on BBC2 earlier that we've been talking about for the past half a day?

You don't read the question. You said it was the MAIN reason for outers wanting out.


main1
meɪn/
adjective

1. 1.
   chief in size or importance.
   "a main road"
   synonyms: principal, chief, head, leading, foremost, most important, major, ruling, dominant, central, focal, key, prime, master, premier, primary, first, high, grand, fundamental, supreme, predominant, (most) prominent, pre-eminent, paramount, overriding, cardinal, crucial, vital, critical, capital, pivotal, salient, elemental, essential, staple, intrinsic, urgent
   "the main office"

That's what I'm challenging, not whether you've seen a few opportunists on a video claiming that's how they'd spend the money.

 

[mcfc1632]

If someone is in a boat heading towards a waterfall what do you sat - " FFS get a grip, get to the side or you could die" or " pop over here now I've got a cheese sandwich for you"

I have read that back a couple of times but I am afraid been unable to decipher the point being made

My point was that I am convinced that the EU project (Titanic) is already doomed to failure (irreparably damaged and destined to sink somewhere further down the line). Therefore if we are still in the EU we will be part of the frantic efforts to prop it up including draining all our resources no matter what veto we think that we may have (trying to launch lifeboats and save people in impossible circumstances) and that I would rather already us be off and able to observe the mayhem from a distance albeit with great sympathy for the tragic outcome.