European Super League | ECJ rule that UEFA and FIFA acted unlawfully in blocking Super League (p 29)

[halfcenturyup]

UEFA isn't the issue. The Football Associations who make up UEFA aren't so much of an issue. It's the G14 of European elite clubs who're the issue.

They want a bigger slice of the UEFA pie for themselves & more power. They believe they are the CL brand & should be remunerated as such, hence the plans for the ESL.

Unfortunately most global fans couldn't be arsed with Europe's Football pyramid arguments. Put Bayern vs Real in front of them, & they're tuning in.

This is what the ESL is counting on, & what UEFA fears.

Can buy most of that, except for the part about UEFA fearing it.

They used to fear it when the cheese-eating surrender monkey was running it, but I think Ceferin is made of sterner stuff. And he has the European Union, the national governments, the domestic federations and most of the European fanbase lined up behind him against the idea of an ESL. And yes, he still has the means under the ECJ ruling to prevent an ESL unless it matches UEFA's commitment to the football pyramid under the European Sports Model. It doesn't matter what the global fanbase wants, I would imagine UEFA won't let the ESL get off the ground if it weakens the domestic leagues, unless qualification to the ESL is based on annual domestic league performance and unless substantial contributions are paid to UEFA to be passed down to the various organisations it supports, for example. By the time all that has happened, it just becomes a CL, EL and the ECL replacement and the question becomes, what is the point? You may say each club will be able to negotiate its own broadcasting deals, but what is this interest in that for any club other than the five or six you have mentioned who can make the most out of it? It would just become like the Spanish league.

I really don't see how this thing happens. At least, imo it will be mired in legal disputes for another four or five years, by which time the CL and the CWC will be the two dominant club competitions, with compensation to match.

Of course, I may be wrong and we are at the beginning of a new era. But not for me.

 

[Dribble]

Can buy most of that, except for the part about UEFA fearing it.

They used to fear it when the cheese-eating surrender monkey was running it, but I think Ceferin is made of sterner stuff. And he has the European Union, the national governments, the domestic federations and most of the European fanbase lined up behind him against the idea of an ESL. And yes, he still has the means under the ECJ ruling to prevent an ESL unless it matches UEFA's commitment to the football pyramid under the European Sports Model. It doesn't matter what the global fanbase wants, I would imagine UEFA won't let the ESL get off the ground if it weakens the domestic leagues, unless qualification to the ESL is based on annual domestic league performance and unless substantial contributions are paid to UEFA to be passed down to the various organisations it supports, for example. By the time all that has happened, it just becomes a CL, EL and the ECL replacement and the question becomes, what is the point? You may say each club will be able to negotiate its own broadcasting deals, but what is this interest in that for any club other than the five or six you have mentioned who can make the most out of it? It would just become like the Spanish league.

I really don't see how this thing happens. At least, imo it will be mired in legal disputes for another four or five years, by which time the CL and the CWC will be the two dominant club competitions, with compensation to match.

Of course, I may be wrong and we are at the beginning of a new era. But not for me.

UEFA's concerns are many & are coming at them from all different angles.

I'm still trying to ascertain if UEFA can legally ban the setting up of the ESL within their structure, or if they can ban it outside their structure too.

Will UEFA & FIFA press the nuclear button & ban all clubs, players, officials & staff participating in the ESL from all its football related competitions & businesses globally?

If they dare, how would the G14 clubs react?

Both UEFA & the ESL are claiming victory over the ECJ's ruling. There's a helluva lot of caveats, moves & counter moves which could be made by both sides yet.

UEFA could even decide to give CL clubs more money, & massively increase the participation & prize money as a way of ending the ESL threat.

There's a lot of unanswered questions, with a lot for UEFA to be concerned with imho.

 

[BringBackSwales]

There's some good debate in this thread, quite informative.

I know. Personally I am off looking for a thread where everyone is calling each other cunts

 

[Pablo ZZZ Peroni]

UEFA's concerns are many & are coming at them from all different angles.

I'm still trying to ascertain if UEFA can legally ban the setting up of the ESL within their structure, or if they can ban it outside their structure too.

Will UEFA & FIFA press the nuclear button & ban all clubs, players, officials & staff participating in the ESL from all its football related competitions & businesses globally?

If they dare, how would the G14 clubs react?

Both UEFA & the ESL are claiming victory over the ECJ's ruling. There's a helluva lot of caveats, moves & counter moves which could be made by both sides yet.

UEFA could even decide to give CL clubs more money, & massively increase the participation & prize money as a way of ending the ESL threat.

There's a lot of unanswered questions, with a lot for UEFA to be concerned with imho.

Presumably you are aware that the G14 (18) group doesn't exist anymore and the club body is the ECA?

If you are simply using the term with reference to the "big boys" and the original players with us included, they are categorically no longer a homogeneous group. The English clubs, German clubs, PSG and Atletico Madrid are all out of the equation for the foreseeable future and possibly some of the Italian clubs as well. The "battle" will rumble on but this ain't happening anytime soon. IMO.

As an aside, where do UEFA get the funds to "massively" increase the participation and prize money bearing in mind this big increase as part of the new format from 2024? They can't simply just decide to give out more.

 

[Dribble]

Presumably you are aware that the G14 (18) group doesn't exist anymore and the club body is the ECA?

If you are simply using the term with reference to the "big boys" and the original players with us included, they are categorically no longer a homogeneous group. The English clubs, German clubs, PSG and Atletico Madrid are all out of the equation for the foreseeable future and possibly some of the Italian clubs as well. The "battle" will rumble on but this ain't happening anytime soon. IMO.

As an aside, where do UEFA get the funds to "massively" increase the participation and prize money bearing in mind this big increase as part of the new format from 2024? They can't simply just decide to give out more.

The only way UEFA can increase participation & prize money is to bring in extra revenue to cover it, or cut what they give to the football pyramid.

I doubt very much UEFA can/will do this, but the ESL's offering this additional revenue. It's projected the new CL format will bring in an additional €1bn, but I'd guess that's to be shared equally across the revised format & pyramid.

My point is there are too many variables involved with this, that I don't believe it to be over by a long chalk. I highlighted just a few in my previous post.

 

[halfcenturyup]

UEFA's concerns are many & are coming at them from all different angles.

I'm still trying to ascertain if UEFA can legally ban the setting up of the ESL within their structure, or if they can ban it outside their structure too.

Will UEFA & FIFA press the nuclear button & ban all clubs, players, officials & staff participating in the ESL from all its football related competitions & businesses globally?

If they dare, how would the G14 clubs react?

Both UEFA & the ESL are claiming victory over the ECJ's ruling. There's a helluva lot of caveats, moves & counter moves which could be made by both sides yet.

UEFA could even decide to give CL clubs more money, & massively increase the participation & prize money as a way of ending the ESL threat.

There's a lot of unanswered questions, with a lot for UEFA to be concerned with imho.

If you want to bone up on this, you can read the ESL judgment on line, and refer to previous judgments from the ECJ in respect of governing sports bodies, the approval of tournaments and the punishment of clubs and players. Puts the whole into a little more perspective, I think.

The key for me is this part: that UEFA doesn't have the power to disapprove a tournament "where there is no framework for those various powers providing for substantive criteria and detailed procedural rules suitable for ensuring that they are transparent, objective, non-discriminatory and proportionate". This is entirely consistent from the ECJ and was entirely predictable. There was no framework in place for ESL1 (if you will). I am sure there is now.

 

[Dribble]

If you want to bone up on this, you can read the ESL judgment on line, and refer to previous judgments from the ECJ in respect of governing sports bodies, the approval of tournaments and the punishment of clubs and players. Puts the whole into a little more perspective, I think.

The key for me is this part: that UEFA doesn't have the power to disapprove a tournament "where there is no framework for those various powers providing for substantive criteria and detailed procedural rules suitable for ensuring that they are transparent, objective, non-discriminatory and proportionate". This is entirely consistent from the ECJ and was entirely predictable. There was no framework in place for ESL1 (if you will). I am sure there is now.

Is that setting up the ESL inside or outside of UEFA/FIFA?

 

[halfcenturyup]

Is that setting up the ESL inside or outside of UEFA/FIFA?

The ECJ judgment was just about the specific case of the actions taken by UEFA against the ESL two years ago. So, an external tournament under the governance of, but not organised, by UEFA, disapproved in the absence of any approval criteria

But, like I say, there are enough ECJ judgments on governing bodies in sport and what they can and can't do to put this judgment into the context of an ESM if you have the time to look.

 

[halfcenturyup]

As an aside, where do UEFA get the funds to "massively" increase the participation and prize money bearing in mind this big increase as part of the new format from 2024? They can't simply just decide to give out more.

Keep up. Mansour is funding it through Etihad Airways. There is a reason we are in Ceferin's good books now, you know.

 

[Dribble]

The ECJ judgment was just about the specific case of the actions taken by UEFA against the ESL two years ago. So, an external tournament under the governance of, but not organised, by UEFA, disapproved in the absence of any approval criteria

But, like I say, there are enough ECJ judgments on governing bodies in sport and what they can and can't do to put this judgment into the context of an ESM if you have the time to look.

Can UEFA stop the ESL being independently setup outside of it's governance?