Everton (A) | PL | Post Match Thread

Bigga said:
We've scored much more when Doku's been playing than when Grealish has.

Have the goals not been harder to come by since Grealish's 'control' style has re-entered our game?
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Ok, I get it. You prefer Doku. I’m personally not fussed who gets the spot on the wing because I think both are excellent in their own ways and we are strong with either or.
 
OB1 said:
Too much fuss has been made over last night’s penalty award. The defender blocked a shot with his arm, which was pretty much above his head. So hard not to give it.

Handball is always going to be a problem because I’m sure that more often than not it is given for offences that were not deliberate. However, you have to penalise instances that if you didn’t, players could start taking advantage of. Last night‘s would be one of those, IMO. I’m sure I’d feel differently about that one if I was a Neverton supporter.

Fundamentally, if you block a shot with your arm, and the arm is not glued to the body i.e. there’s daylight (or floodlight) between the arm and body, you should expect to be penalised.

The Grealish one in the Cup Final was quite different and was an appalling decision.
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Whether considered a fair rule or not, I get why the PL have opted to take interpretation out of the equation.

For far too long, penalties were purely down to the ref's interpretation, which led to some strange decisions.

Last night's ref was too easily intimidated & influenced by the crowd. We saw it when he didn't call a foul until the fans started balling at him.

At least with the rules as they currently stand, interpretation was taken out of his hands. Some decisions are clearly bonkers because they're obviously not deliberate handball, but at least with the rule as it is, whether we agree with it or not, everyone should be clear on what's handball & what's not.

It's not perfect, but it's better than most previous iterations I remember. \0/
 
Bigga said:
I'm not arguing that at all.

Grealish has his uses for the 'control' everybody seems to prefer. That's fine.

But then one would have to agree that Grealish tends not to take players on and is, more often than not, rather predictable of where he's going to take the ball. You'll often see one defender track him and another defender further out to that defender's left for the outlay ball.

With Doku, you'll see minimum of two defenders in much closer proximity to try and stop the dribble through. That's the threat we fans (and I suspect Guardiola) looks for. I say this because Guardiola expressed how much he lets the forward line makes the decision on attacking.
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They are different. I agree Doku is less predictable, and that makes him great fun to watch.

I’m not overly concerned with determining if one is better than the other. I’m happy for Pep to pick the team. I just hope both get plenty of minutes over the season as I enjoy watching both of them.
 
OB1 said:
They are different. I agree Doku is less predictable, and that makes him great fun to watch.

I’m not overly concerned with determining if one is better than the other. I’m happy for Pep to pick the team. I just hope both get plenty of minutes over the season as I enjoy watching both of them.
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Is the right answer for any normal person.
 
paulsimpson said:
The thing is about Nunes - he's great when he's driving forward and creating options but it takes time to cement a solid place in a team . Bernardo , Rodri are good examples of that . Plenty of criticism of those two in their first season but when they grew into their roles that Pep moulded for them then they became undroppable. In time it's hoped that Nunes can develop a little more aggression or less timidity in keeping the ball in tight situations. Confidence is a big factor in all of this. He has the skill set no doubt it .
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I think Nunes need to build confidence.
 
Phil1 said:
Ok, I get it. You prefer Doku. I’m personally not fussed who gets the spot on the wing because I think both are excellent in their own ways and we are strong with either or.
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Messes with my head that people think its a choice between them both.
Like you, i love doku, hes going to be great. But hes also had as many stinkers as good games.

I appreciate grealish may slow the game down but i like the way he always draws 2 players over.

My red mate thinks grealish is ‘shit’. I explained that during a treble winning season he played the 4th most amount of games. He cant be that shit. Convo over
 
madloaf said:
Big chances created is 4 v 3 for Doku over Grealish according to the premier league stats - but i get what you mean in terms of him creating space for others to create by creating chaos.

I think grealish, particularly over the last 6 games, has got goals, and created big chances - he clearly wasn't 100% at the beginning of the year.

He doesn't square his defender up as much as doku, for sure, and when doku runs at people it definitely creates more chaos and is fun to watch, but the idea that grealish slows everything down isn't true either. Look at the two first half chances yesterday: (7 seconds to 32 seconds)



First one is grealish running at defenders, playing a perfect ball forward for alvarez, the 2nd one is grealish running at defenders and getting a shot away (admittedly a toe poke!)

You factor in the defensive side of the game as he showed last night, the diligence to do that side of the ball as well, and that's why I prefer him right now.
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I think that's fair enough to back up your argument and maybe it's perception to see the talented player (at Villa) slow to a crawl in a lot of the games he's in for us. It's frustrating to see potential breakaways end up as nothing burgers because of the refusal to take chances.

I, actually, saw Doku do some of this in his last couple of games too, obviously Grealish inspired!!
 
Bigga said:
I think that's fair enough to back up your argument and maybe it's perception to see the talented player (at Villa) slow to a crawl in a lot of the games he's in for us. It's frustrating to see potential breakaways end up as nothing burgers because of the refusal to take chances.

I, actually, saw Doku do some of this in his last couple of games too, obviously Grealish inspired!!
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Guardiola inspired…
 
Was the handball the correct decision?
I’m just wondering cos no one is mentioning it.
Paid off refs.
corruption.
Even Sky are hurting.
Hahahahahahaha
Ickle City the team no one cares about : )
 
Phil1 said:
Guardiola inspired…
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Yup.

And it can be frustrating sometimes. We definitely go for control where some teams would go gung-ho on the counter attack. However, we have a way of playing that has just delivered five trophies in the past year. You can’t have everything - a couple got away ;).
 
Bigga said:
Doubt it, myself.

What would be the point in having Doku on the pitch to repeat what Grealish does??
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My interpretation is that Pep prefers the pause then overload as opposed to just beating a player yourself only to find little or no support in the box to put the cross into.
 
cleavers said:
Do you have the stats to back that up ? (No I'm not going to work it out ;-) )
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I've worked it out coz it's christmas and i have fuck all else to do!

Competitive games only.

Grealish started 15 games - total goals scored - 37 goals. - 2.46 goals per game.
Doku started 10 games - total goals scored - 30 goals. - 3 goals per game.

11 of those goals for Doku are from 2 games - but stats are stats and by this metric alone we score more when he starts.

Just to maybe put a bow on this as I feel like me saying doku isn't in our best 11 has created perhaps slightly more conversation than i thought it would, i refer people to my post from the doku thread from a couple of months ago and sorry if i have upset anyone!!

madloaf said:
Doku squares up his defender.

Me:
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Last night at the final whistle I was pleased. I mean, deeply chuffed.

But I'm getting a kind of delayed reaction today — I feel downright proud. That was, finally, My Manchester City. That was a genuine, patented, Manchester City Performance, maybe the first of the season, in the league at any rate.
By the end of January, I think we'll have a clearer idea. But we can do this. No question. I believe, Lord do I believe.
 
madloaf said:
I've worked it out coz it's christmas and i have fuck all else to do!

Competitive games only.

Grealish started 15 games - total goals scored - 37 goals. - 2.46 goals per game.
Doku started 10 games - total goals scored - 30 goals. - 3 goals per game.

11 of those goals for Doku are from 2 games - but stats are stats and by this metric alone we score more when he starts.

Just to maybe put a bow on this as I feel like me saying doku isn't in our best 11 has created perhaps slightly more conversation than i thought it would, i refer people to my post from the doku thread from a couple of months ago and sorry if i have upset anyone!!
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Sorry, props to you for working that out, and it's kind of interesting in its own way. But sorry, there are just too many other parameters which are missing here, and it's too narrow a sample, to make that meaningful.
 
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