Everton v City post match

Can't wait for joe hart to be sold and for all the club and fans to finally move on. No more pining for the English overrated keeper who have been dropped by out last three managers and had clanger after clanger in the euros. You fellas need to let go. It's not happening.
Joe - Golden Gloves 4 years out of last 5 (2nd other season) - not exactly behind a defensive minded team under Manuel. Better record than De Gea for 5 years. Ok, write off De Gea's first year. Did you see De Gea's 3 howlers in the Euros ? Against Croatia caught with the ball at his feet and at the near post and against Italy spilled a straightforward shot and conceded.

Let's compare Joe's international record to Neuer's. Joe has 6 or so clean sheets more than Neuer in 6 or so fewer games. Neuer plays behind one of the greatest defensive units of all time. Joe plays behind one of the most average defensive units in world football. Germany go further in tournaments, but even in the latter stages they're usually up against much weaker teams.

Messi and Buffon rate Joe up there with anyone in world football.
 
You're right, but only up to a point in my book. Yesterday was something of a watershed moment for me. Against Chelsea we were the better team and should have won, and even at Klanfield we could have clawed our way back in, but yesterday had a feel of inevitably about it after no more than about 10 minutes. Defensively it was an even bigger shambles than Leicester and on that score the stats are racking up and telling a story. 9 wins from our last 22 games in all competitions. Going 1-0 down in 14 of those 22 games (8 times inside the first 15 minutes). Conceding 13 goals from the last 21 shots on target against us. Conceding to the opposition's first shot on target in 7 of the last 11 matches. There's only so much opprobrium you can heap on the players. They are all one year older than last season, not 10. We were poor defensively under Pellegrini, but what I've seen at the back this season has frequently been even worse. Yes, they're learning a new system (although increasingly I'm finding hard to actually decipher what that is), yes, it takes time, but - and perhaps because I've had far less previous exposure to Pep than you - I'm still surprised by the degree of faith on here in his preferred "system" and the general confidence, bordering on unswerving belief, that he will be able to make it work satisfactorily in this league, where everyone parks the bus, where everyone has a big, powerful lummox up front to relieve the pressure, and where everyone works like navvies against us. Bottom line though, Pep is the coach, and by general consensus the best in the business, and yet 30 odd games into the season our defence is all too frequently an absolute shambles and, crucially, showing precious little sign of improvement.

Whose fault is it that we started the season with 4 full backs well into their 30's, and with just 3 centre halves (and one of them the broken wreck that is Vincent Kompany), and with just 2 recognised strikers (and one of those a barely tested 19 year old Nigerian kid), and who decided that swapping a generally excellent and physically imposing keeper for arguably the most unconvincing shot stopper we've had at the club since Martyn Margetson was a good idea? I'm not saying it's all on Pep, indeed like you I believe it's 70% due to inheriting an ageing squad that can't do all the things he wants, but he has to cop some of the blame for what's going on. He spent £150m in the summer and, via Txixi, has been in de facto control of the comings and goings for over a year now. The players he did bring in were clearly purchased with a view to playing a certain way (including Bravo), but how are we to assess the judgement behind those purchases when 15 games into the season, the manager expresses surprise that everyone simply parks the bus against us, rendering our diddyman attacking assets neutral at a stroke, and then bypasses our press by the expedient means of lumping it over the top, where our comfortable in possession, but none too imposing physically and frequently exposed, centre halves find themselves getting out-jumped, outpaced and out muscled on a fairly regular basis. Most Blues could have told him that was going to happen, and indeed I relayed my fears to you in the summer about the prospect of the majority of teams in the league setting up against us like Celtic did in successive seasons against Barca (albeit that Vilanova was in charge for the second round I think, although they were still playing the Barca "way") in the Chimps League, beating them at Parkhead in precisely the way Everton did us yesterday, and only going down 2-1 and 1-0 to very late goals in 2 of the other fixtures. How could that have come as a surprise to him, and particularly to Txixi, who has been watching Premier League football non-stop for the last 2 and a half years?

Personally I think we're in relatively deep lumber at the moment and can't afford to carry on getting walloped in the fashion we did yesterday, when the players looked rudderless, and Pep shell shocked. He needs to buy a centre half, a left back, a defensive midfield powerhouse and a physically imposing striker in this window, if we are to have any real prospect of avoiding frequent repetitions of the events at Woodison and finishing 6th in a 6th horse race, and for his own sake if no-one else's Bravo has to be dropped. I don't doubt there will be accusations (not from you) of my being led by the media, but I hate the idea of fixed systems in this league, because they're only ever viable until someone figures out the antidote. You have to be able to play in a variety of ways and right now we just don't seem able to. We're great when the opposition tries to take the game to us and leaves oceans of space for KDB and Spanish Dave to have fun in, but when they set out to frustrate then the outcome is fairly predictable. Arsenal play decent football, not dissimilar to us you might argue, but how many times have they dug out last gasp victories this season by throwing the ball over to that big fucker Giroud? 4? 5? 6? City by contrast haven't scored a single late winner, unless you count the own goal against Sunderland on the opening day. That's how easily thwarted we are, and that shouldn't be the case when you've got players like Aguero, Silva, Ya Ya, KDB and the unfortunately now injured Gundogan at your disposal. I make no long term prediction and indeed no real comment on Pep (adverse or positive) at this stage, as the man has to be given a chance in this ultra competitive league, and there have been enough encouraging signs going forward to suggest he will get it right. Based on what I've seen this season so far overall however, I'd say that the successful implementation of Plan Pep is going to be far harder than anyone first thought, and thus far (defensively at least) it isn't just the players who've been below par
The defending is a continuation of what we saw under Pellegrini with personnel one year older.

They could be protected but to do would be to negate how Guardiola wants to play. he must have thought Stones and Kompany would do a better job.

One cannot argue with the results or recent performances but I think you have to give Guardiola time to address the deficiencies in the squad which are very real. We're losing games because we don;t have the squad depth to play very attacking high risk football when we have a few players out suspended or injured. It would be easy to criticise the gung-ho football with nothing at the back, but do we have an alternative? Not sure we did at Everton when Fernando, Fernandinho, and Gundogan were out and Delph was only just back. Would be a big decision to go with youth players and alienate squad players who are useful on occasion against weaker opponents.
 
This was my one and only away game for the season. Thankfully my 670m loyalty points weren't enough and haven't been enough for a couple of seasons. Unfortunately, whilst hammering away at this keyboard last night I just happened to look up and saw every goal on the news.

I think Pep has woefully underestimated the character and nature of the PL. He has left me with the impression that with the individual quality of the team he thought he might roll over some lesser blessed squads. There's too much money at stake for teams to dropout of the PL. They will fight tooth and nail to get a point that might mean inclusion next season. Too many teams have caused us problems this season with just ordinary striking options. I haven't counted but I suspect we have made as many chances as we did in the title winning seasons but have converted a lot less.
Bang on. The lesser teams in Spain and Germany roll over. Here they're in your face. Surely the staff told Pep all about Everton - big club that plays like relegation threatened scrappers.
 
Joe - Golden Gloves 4 years out of last 5 (2nd other season) - not exactly behind a defensive minded team under Manuel. Better record than De Gea for 5 years. Ok, write off De Gea's first year. Did you see De Gea's 3 howlers in the Euros ? Against Croatia caught with the ball at his feet and at the near post and against Italy spilled a straightforward shot and conceded.

Let's compare Joe's international record to Neuer's. Joe has 6 or so clean sheets more than Neuer in 6 or so fewer games. Neuer plays behind one of the greatest defensive units of all time. Joe plays behind one of the most average defensive units in world football. Germany go further in tournaments, but even in the latter stages they're usually up against much weaker teams.

Messi and Buffon rate Joe up there with anyone in world football.

If Joe was as good as you are making out all the top teams in Europe, but Liverpool in particular would be chasing him. The fact is he isn't as you think.

See 2m 30 for Joe's known weakness down to his left and which has similarities to his mistakes in the Euros.

 
He's not looked comfortable on the left for us. The lad himself prefers the right and we've bought him based on his performances on the right. I very much doubt Pep will want two traditional wingers as hitting the byline and swinging in crosses is arguably an idiotic tactic with Sergio or Jesus for a target.
So for me he's a right winger and until he's considered amongst the elite left wingers in the World he is a right winger.

As I say I really like Sane. I just don't think we needed him considering what we already had. Doesn't mean I'm not excited by him or I don't think he's a great player.


My point remains valid, all our elite players play in or want to play in similar positions.

At two nil down we've a got a young, lightening quick exciting winger on the bench, where he remained.
Why did he remain on the bench?
A, not fit.
B, not fancied.
C, team balance.

For me, to bring on Sane effectively, it would have required a total system and shape change. Pulling players all over the place. I guess Pep thought the same.
If he's cool on the left, it was a terrible bit of management to leave him out. We had no shape and nullified one of our biggest threats.

I'm not going to go round in circles on this or go away form the one point. Sane is left footed and if Pep wants to use him predominantly on the left, he should be able to adapt to that without much trouble.

Sterling played largely on left last season didn't he? This season Pep has used him much more on the right, hasn't he?

Let's see what Pep does with Sane over the remainder of the season.
 
I've said it for a while, but for a top team we have a awful lot of average players who wouldn't get into any of the other squads. We also have some very sensitive types who you wouldn't want next to you in the trenches!
Some of our team wouldn't get in Burnley's eleven. Zaba's run through brick walls for us for 9 years. Need a few to follow his example.
 
If Joe was as good as you are making out all the top teams in Europe, but Liverpool in particular would be chasing him. The fact is he isn't as you think.

See 2m 30 for Joe's known weakness down to his left and which has similarities to his mistakes in the Euros.


Just look at his record, together with the number of match-winning saves. He's on track to become England's all time clean sheet number one. Seaman, Banks, Clemence and Shilton all played behind class back fours. Joe hasn't had that luxury.
 
The only change to the starting 11 from the WHU game was Bravo. Now, I was prepared to give Bravo a chance but he just doesn't seem to have the passion of JH and the defence haven't got a clue what he's doing half the time. None of the players seem to have any confidence in him at all. Pep has a big decision to make now; drop him or carry on regardless. I'd stick big willy between the sticks. He commands the area better than Bravo, and he's a bit more predictable. Obviously you don't get in the Barcelona team if you are a s**t player, but I just don't think Bravo has adapted to the Premier League (yet?).

It wasn't just Bravo making mistakes, but the defensive errors may not have happened if the players weren't in two minds about passing the ball to the keeper at every opportunity. There were also poor performances higher up the pitch, so nobody really came away from that game with their pride intact. As usual, stick our early chances away - different game altogether.

I don't know what is going on in the dressing room, but it just looks like we don't have any leaders out there any more, especially since Head and Shoulders went out on loan. Can't wait for Vinny to come back. Either that, or get Andy Morrison to do the team talk.
Keeping goal for Barca doesn't involve doing much - only tested in a handful of games.
 
Yeah look at the scum spent half billion and sit in midtable
Yep, ManUre - half a billion pound squad, £90m player and 6th. Yes, we're disappointed, but United play shite football - long balls to Fellaini and have peaked this season.
 

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