Explosion at MEN Arena/Victoria Station

geoff clipp said:
The reason I assume locking up potentially innocent young muslim men will lead to further radicalisation is because you're creating a massive sense of injustice in people. You're marginalising people and you're othering them. You're telling them they're second class citizens and it's rich pickings for the likes of ISIS to start turning their heads.

Again, it's just down to personal opinion, because nobody really has the answers here, but my own view is that so long as people are being radicalised you actually can't completely stop these things from happening. Therefore I would put more energy into creating an environment in which people are less likely to become radicalised in the hope we can make these occurrences rarer. Surveillance and legislation have a role to play for sure but I also think engagement with communities and investment is a more effective long term solution. I'm pretty sure i'm going to be tarred with the leftie brush for this, but I also think we don't really have enough positive representations of young muslim men in the media and it means a lot of the role models they go and seek out themselves can leave them vulnerable to radicalisation (the actor Riz Ahmed gave a speech about this in parliament and it made a lot of sense to me) http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...sity-in-tv-leads-people-to-isis-a7610861.html

I'm not claiming to have a definitive answer on what does and doesn't work, i just wanted to make the point that some people aren't opposed to mass internment because they think it's unfair, it's because they think it will make matters worse.
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My first paragraph in my previous post is now edited as my phone was playing up when typing it.

I agree we have to think long term but i also believe we need to change our way of thinking short term because this shit is just getting worse and worse. It infuriates me when you see obvious extremists/supporters on news, docos etc and they are allowed to walk the street. Get these people off the street asap and there is less people to radicalise impressionable youth. It's a different world from a few years ago and i believe some of our policies have to adapt with the times, even though change and the unknown can be scary.

Anyway it's midnight in aus, going to bed. Didn't want to get into a debate but emotions are high i guess.

Just wanted to pay my respects and wish all the mancunians on here the best.
 
Tugay One Cup said:
I get that but honestly what are those folks contributing to the issue?

Instead of throwing out childish insults at those using the only skills they have to help others and demanding specific solutions to problems they are utterly ill equipped to solve, why can't the two things be treated seperately?

As far as I'm aware, Tony Walsh doesn't have any responsibility with regards to ending terrorism and yesterday he was just doing what he could to help. He (I'm guessing he is the individual who has been referred to) doesn't deserve criticism in any way shape or form and such anger couldn't be more misplaced.
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I think everyone, myself included, aren't commenting rationally 24/7 right now. I'm in Dublin(but a frequent visitor to Manchester) and I am irate right now. I can't even fathom how this is effecting everyone who is right in the thick of this. Folk will speak the right thing in the wrong way. Best not to petty squabble and just show a full appreciation for the heroes looking after the victims and raiding blocks right now.
 
Just confirmed that a female serving off duty police officer was killed.
 
Taxi said:
What can we do as a civilised society then.
Well we can stop walking on egg shells and wasting too much enegry into who we may possibly offend.
We are effictively at war with these barbaric bastards and the needs of the many now outway the few.
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Just to point out, this is the start of how dictatorships and authoritarian power grabs begin.

Taxi said:
Our security forces are falling way short of the mark in potecting decent law abiding citizens.
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SIS, MI5, GCHQ and the police have stopped dozens of attacks in the last decade.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...wolf-low-tech-car-truck-vehicle-a7645221.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39176110

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_thwarted_Islamist_terrorist_attacks

etc. etc.

Taxi said:
Our venues are falling way short of what is expected in respect to security.
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There is a complicated balance of sacrificing liberty for security.

Taxi said:
The goverments warning level for the past year has been that an attack is imminent.
And yet a tripadvisor review of the MEN arena slates rhe security two weeks previously saying it was non existent..
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Short of searching everyone going anywhere near the MEN, there's no reasonable security provision that could have stopped this attack given where it took place. It wasn't past the security check point, it was near the ticket office.

Taxi said:
Anyone suspected of terror against our nation should be removed from society.
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This is guilty until proven innocent and violates all sorts of human rights protections we enjoy. How do you know this power would only be used on 'the bad guys' and not, say, political extremists the government doesn't like (which, afterall, has happend for years).

Taxi said:
Any person who goes to train or has affiliation with isis cnunts should be refused entry back into this fine country.
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There are some citizenship problems with this, in terms of stripping away their fundamental rights - but there's no reason that, assuming there's evidence of them training with ISIS or associating with terrorists, promoting hate speech, terrorism etc. shouldn't see them arrested. Obviously sometimes they're being monitored in the hope of catching more people/going further into cell structures etc.
 
Taxi said:
Religions tend to preach death and destruction in their mantra.
Fact of the matter is that we have moved on from the fookwittery we call radical islam.
Five hundred years behind humanity and a stone aged belief system non conducive to twentieth century living.

We all interact and work with muslims cristians jews and agnostics.
The problem to hand is with none of them.
Radical islam and its filthy pig like mantra is where the problem lies.

What can we do as a civilised society then.
Well we can stop walking on egg shells and wasting too much enegry into who we may possibly offend.
We are effictively at war with these barbaric bastards and the needs of the many now outway the few.

Our security forces are falling way short of the mark in potecting decent law abiding citizens.
Our venues are falling way short of what is expected in respect to security.
The goverments warning level for the past year has been that an attack is imminent.
And yet a tripadvisor review of the MEN arena slates rhe security two weeks previously saying it was non existent..

Anyone suspected of terror against our nation should be removed from society.
Any person who goes to train or has affiliation with isis cnunts should be refused entry back into this fine country.
This hallowed place that welcomes al nations to its shores in peace and understanding.and love

All mosques preaching hatred and bile should be closed down.
We know the mosques concerned through undercover broadcasting programmes.
Take action against all that do not wish to embrace our culture and friendly nature and welcoming hand to outsiders.

The answer is out there but we had better act fast or we are going to run out of #hashtags.
This could have been any of your daughters or wives.
My daughter wanted to go but the cost was prohibitive.
Radical islam is nothing but a dirty disease and it needs to be removed.
Try not to be offended too much and allow our security forces to make some headway in battling this cancer from our midsts..

Adio.
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Afcukingmen to that
 
rugbyblue said:
If you take a look at Evengelicals in America, you'll find similar twisted views on 'their religion' as those who try and twist the interpretation of the Quran to serve their own ideals.

The high amount of hate crimes and attacks on 'people who are different' comes from a similar place (Racism, homophobia, otherism etc. )
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They are a mirror image and equally despicable in thought. They haven't, as yet, resorted to larger scale terrorism but members of that cult have murdered doctors who work in abortion clinics. They similarly discriminate against gay people and see women as subjugated to patriarch rule.

They too deny evolution, science and reason and are a threat to the progress of humanity.

Look at that prick leading the Libdums being unable to say homosexuals aren't sinful.

Liberal? I don't think so.
 
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