Repeatedly qualifying and getting to the latter stages of major tournaments.
We need to stop viewing that as success and start viewing any less than that as failure. His record in major tournaments is par for the course at best IMO. Only Germany last Euros is arguably a knockout game we weren't favourites for and, given their atrocious record at major tournaments, that's debatable.
My issue with Southgate, and why I think he has to go, is that it's taken him half a decade to realise that England should be playing a positive style with 4 at the back and that our best players should be given creative freedom... something that almost every England fan has been saying for years. How has it taken him so long to come to this incredible revelation?
Considering he inherited an England side that in 2014 lost to Italy, Uruguay and drew with Costa Rica to exit in the groups, and then in 2016 drew with Russia, Slovakia and then beat Wales to finish 2nd in the group before losing to Iceland I don't think you could say we were favourites for many games. We like to believe England can win any tournament and are favourites for every game but history says otherwise. He's had games we should win, but he's done what other manages failed to and won them.
Ultimately I think he's cost us in the Croatia and Italy games but got it right against France where the players couldn't quite do it. We should have had a free kick before their first goal. We should have scored the second pen. We shouldn't be letting the ball from Griezmann come in and should have marked Giroud better. We'd just got away with one from him and then let him get that half a yard again. Fine margins at this level. Like others have said though, winning tournaments isn't always about blowing everyone away. No team has really done that. It's about being solid and taking your chances.
And no sooner had we played the team with a serious MF (Ok, I still don't get Rabiot, bu he obviously functions!) and a freewheeling No 8 (who is not even No 8) than we hit the wall.
If we can press the opposition into a quick turnover or overpower them on the wings, we win. But when there is necessity to continuously apply pressure in the MF and build it from there, we just fail. We are actually totally opposite to Spain, they wrestle control from everybody, but they cannot score.
Southgate either hates playing MF or he doesn't have clue how.
That's on Southgate though. He insisted on playing a centre-back who's been in dreadful form for a year instead of a White or Tomori.
"brilliant"? Fuck me!I don't put that on Southgate. The team defends those situations. Henderson has to stop the ball coming in and the defence have to deal with Giroud better. Maguire was closest to him but we had plenty in the box and none of them were ready or prepared for the ball in. I'd say that Stones should have been in a better spot to clear that away as he was in no-man's-land. Rice was also in there and not picking anyone up. Tomori has been in dreadful form this season and was rightly not in the squad. Ben White went home so not an option either.
I think it's time for Southgate to go, purely because I don't think we need to keep talking about 2018 the Euro's and now this WC. It's best to move on under new management and see if they can get the job done using the Euro's as a platform. I don't know who will replace them, for me he's been brilliant and has brought a real pride and joy to watching England which was destroyed by Roy Hodgson and the 2014 and 2016 tournaments. Most that are negative don't really care about England anyway. If we stick with Gareth I worry we'll be looking back too much and sometimes you need to just draw a line and go again. We've got so many good young players who will hopefully kick on over the next 4 years.
"brilliant"? Fuck me!
Yeah, right. Some warped fkn reasoning on here.Yes brilliant. He's made me want to watch England and he's given me amazing memories on the way to a World Cup semi final and Euro's final where we just couldn't quite get over the line. Against France we were superb. I think Pep's been a brilliant manager for City, he hasn't won the CL though so maybe I should say he's been a failure because that's the one we want. Until he wins it he's been as good as Southgate hasn't he?
Yes brilliant. He's made me want to watch England and he's given me amazing memories on the way to a World Cup semi final and Euro's final where we just couldn't quite get over the line. Against France we were superb. I think Pep's been a brilliant manager for City, he hasn't won the CL though so maybe I should say he's been a failure because that's the one we want. Until he wins it he's been as good as Southgate hasn't he?
Yeah, right. Some warped fkn reasoning on here.
Pep is = to Southgate - I've heard it all now.
Ok.And how long ago was that? It's still possible to play flair players in a long ball system.
That's not what I'm saying. Your reasoning is Southgate is shite because he hasn't won anything. There's more of a balance to it than that. Very few international managers win anything, that doesn't mean they're shite. Pep hasn't won the CL with City when it's what he was brought in to help the club achieve. No one in their right mind would call him shite, but some do. They're usually dipper fans. They used the same flawed arguments you would use to claim Southgate hasn't been a good England manager.
All about opinions, and no doubt the FA will want to keep Southgate .
and btw I think the FA are pretty useless too.
Pep may have not won CL with City, but he has won it and a shedload more besides. His teams have also played some of the most sublime football ever witnessed. He may be blessed resource wise, but he is a perfectionist and a serial winner. He was as a player and is as a manager.That's not what I'm saying. Your reasoning is Southgate is shite because he hasn't won anything. There's more of a balance to it than that. Very few international managers win anything, that doesn't mean they're shite. Pep hasn't won the CL with City when it's what he was brought in to help the club achieve. No one in their right mind would call him shite, but some do. They're usually dipper fans. They used the same flawed arguments you would use to claim Southgate hasn't been a good England manager.
Pep may have not won CL with City, but he has won it and a shedload more besides. His teams have also played some of the most sublime football ever witnessed. He may be blessed resource wise, but he is a perfectionist and a serial winner. He was as a player and is as a manager.
None of the above can be applied to Southgate.
You've gone from "brilliant" to "decent".England have won one World Cup and it was 56 years ago. I don't think you can measure a manager as a failure when he doesn't win anything, with that being the history of English football. I think, getting as close as he did, he has done a decent job. And if he leaves now he leaves us on a good platform to push on and hopefully end the misery. Pep to us is all the things you set out but to others is a money man who had Messi and has failed every season since in the CL and overthought the final with us and being a perfectionist and serial winner is easier when you've got billions to spend.