It's a very strange defence using the most successful and tactically aware manager of modern times not winning one particular trophy as proof that Southgate has done OK.
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FA confirm Southgate will stay on until after Euro 2024 (p 101)
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Southgate is the manager for the "I become a football fan during the big tournaments and don't bother at any other time" people, the HYS type on the BBC website.It's a very strange defence using the most successful and tactically aware manager of modern times not winning one particular trophy as proof that Southgate has done OK.
cheekybids
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It's a very strange defence using the most successful and tactically aware manager of modern times not winning one particular trophy as proof that Southgate has done OK.
Very strange, like Dumb & Dumber.
supercity88
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Naah. The two of you aren't doing yourselves any favours with this Southgate/Guardiola nonsense. If Guardiola had finished 2nd - 8th in the PL and not won the CL, he would have been out as well. At least, would have left when one of his contracts was up.
To claim that we don't criticise Guardiola when he screws up in the CL is nonsense if you have been on here after a defeat, but no-one wants him out because he has a body of work that is almost second to none and is way above expectations.
Southgate has finished 2nd - 8th in the tournaments he has entered, and was relegated in the NL, with an increasingly talented and experienced team. It is right that people question whether he is the guy to develop them further.
I'm only referencing Pep because of the nonsense being spouted about Southgate. You can't put the blame solely on the manager in one instance and then the players in another. That's bollocks. It comes down to the whole package. Pep is exceptional, undoubtedly and City as a club have recruited the best players, have built fantastic facilities and are run incredibly well. To suggest managing internationally is anything like running a club team is bollocks. There's never going to be an argument Southgate is anywhere near Pep as a manager, that's ridiculous.
But Luis Enrique was an excellent club manager. As was Hansi Flick. They've done fuck all with their national teams. The Argentinian manager has no experience at all yet they're in the final. What are the issues with Spain and Germany? Is it solely the manager? Is it the pool of players available? I think the blame lies more firmly at Luis Enrique and Flick's doors for their tournament exits than it does at Southgate's this time around. All I've ever said is I don't think our exit this time is down to him.
supercity88
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It's a very strange defence using the most successful and tactically aware manager of modern times not winning one particular trophy as proof that Southgate has done OK.
It's evidence that the manager isn't at fault for everything. This whole stupid debate has evolved from the idiotic suggestion that our loss to France was solely Southgate's fault. Then, to reveal how stupid that suggestion is, it was questioned by @BlueHammer85 why Pep had never won the CL in that case.
I get why its being said I just disagree wholeheartedly as the point is the two managers are world's apart in their approach to the game.It's evidence that the manager isn't at fault for everything. This whole stupid debate has evolved from the idiotic suggestion that our loss to France was solely Southgate's fault. Then, to reveal how stupid that suggestion is, it was questioned by @BlueHammer85 why Pep had never won the CL in that case.
No defeat in any tournament be it club or national team should be solely down to one thing. You win and lose as a collective, or at least that's how it should be.
There's no denying the top coaches get a bit more out of their teams though and that's where Southgate falls short for me. He's just not a great coach. He's a decent bloke, he's not really done anything much to be overly critical about as an ambassador for England. It basically boils down to me not believing he can get the best out of the tools he has at hand.
cheekybids
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It's evidence that the manager isn't at fault for everything. This whole stupid debate has evolved from the idiotic suggestion that our loss to France was solely Southgate's fault. Then, to reveal how stupid that suggestion is, it was questioned by @BlueHammer85 why Pep had never won the CL in that case.
It’s got nothing to do with France as it was said well before the France game.
England currently has so much creativity & we had 2 players that can’t get in the Rags back 4. A midfield of Henderson & Rice with no style of play.
He was shit scared of the USA, how the fuck was he seriously going to progress further than QF.
GaudinoMotors
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Has it been questioned why Southgate has never won anything ever. Oh - and Pep has won the CL.
supercity88
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I get why its being said I just disagree wholeheartedly as the point is the two managers are world's apart in their approach to the game.
No defeat in any tournament be it club or national team should be solely down to one thing. You win and lose as a collective, or at least that's how it should be.
There's no denying the top coaches get a bit more out of their teams though and that's where Southgate falls short for me. He's just not a great coach. He's a decent bloke, he's not really done anything much to be overly critical about as an ambassador for England. It basically boils down to me not believing he can get the best out of the tools he has at hand.
That's absolutely fine, I've got no issue with that. I think Southgate has been good for England when our recent history prior to his arrival was fucking awful. 2008 we didn't qualify. 2010 was horrific. 2012 a penalty shootout loss again. 2014 group stage exit. 2016 loss to Iceland. 2018 semi final, 2021 Euro final and a decent showing if ultimately another failure this time. Southgate is limited. I'd put 2018 and the Euro's final on him. He didn't do enough in game to win those. I don't blame him for this exit, but ultimately it's time for him to leave.
If you need time to think then the FA should move him on. He might decide he's okay, but clearly he's not if he needs to think about things. He's burdened by not only his own miss in 96 but the subsequent failures.
What I would say though is that it's pretty much impossible as a job. I remember the calls for Southgate to stop playing two holding midfielders, he did and we were fucking awful. There's so much outside noise, so much pressure, so much hype. I really don't know who comes in and transforms the team. I wouldn't be looking for anyone English though. We've two young English managers who are flavour of the month, but ultimately have very little experience and aren't ready for it. We've then got the stupid calls for Lampard and Gerrard which need to go in the bin. Tuchel and Pochettino are foreign names mentioned. I think Pochettino would go down pretty well initially but his CV would then get dissected at the first poor game - can he handle that as a foreign manager? Does he need that shit when he can get a decent job at a club? Tuchel similarly. He's not very likeable. It will be easier for the media to turn on him and he's German and becomes a secret agent as soon as things go to shit. I don't see him as an FA man. I've said before though, Tuchel is the man I'd go for. He has a good level of experience working with top players and under pressure. He's won the CL. He knows English football. And the fact he's German, it would just be typical England to win something with a German in charge. I don't know why we haven't tried it before.
The best thing for England would be to wait until Klopp's sacked and then get him. He's the ideal candidate.
Dave Ewing's Back 'eader
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I don't know whether the number of variables at play within a game or a tournament are numbered in the thousands or millions. I've said before that if the football were a cube and not a sphere the number of variables would reduce considerably, and how many of those variables can be controlled from someone in the technical area is what the debate is about. It wasn't only Southgate who was responsible for our exit, just as it wasn't Pep's sole responsibility that we haven't won the CL.I get why its being said I just disagree wholeheartedly as the point is the two managers are world's apart in their approach to the game.
No defeat in any tournament be it club or national team should be solely down to one thing. You win and lose as a collective, or at least that's how it should be.
There's no denying the top coaches get a bit more out of their teams though and that's where Southgate falls short for me. He's just not a great coach. He's a decent bloke, he's not really done anything much to be overly critical about as an ambassador for England. It basically boils down to me not believing he can get the best out of the tools he has at hand.
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