FA Watch

[Montgomery Burns]

Just to add my bit, I joined Spursmad yesterday and started a thread about this. I will keep them posted over there.

Thanks for this mate.

 

[i8therags]

I said on a Pratini thread that fans now need to take ownership of football.This is a great thread as the FA,sky,and all the media now need to understand that 4 teams cannot be kept in the top 4 as what seems to me,as something like a buisness plan to sell the football product.

 

[mat]

I said on a Pratini thread that fans now need to take ownership of football.This is a great thread as the FA,sky,and all the media now need to understand that 4 teams cannot be kept in the top 4 as what seems to me,as something like a buisness plan to sell the football product.

You've got it spot on.

 

[Montgomery Burns]

I said on a Pratini thread that fans now need to take ownership of football.This is a great thread as the FA,sky,and all the media now need to understand that 4 teams cannot be kept in the top 4 as what seems to me,as something like a buisness plan to sell the football product.

You've got it spot on.

Tht's the perception of most people on here, I'm sure!

 

[Montgomery Burns]

interesting thread. there is mileage in this, but as has been pointed out, the way forward is to highlight the lack of transparency, the way they prejudice cases by commenting in the media prior to the hearing, in other words the lack of emphasis on methodical, consistent application of a clear set of regulations. this case has piqued my interest. The FA is an institution that is powerful, has an extremely high public profile, and is extremely well financed (benefitting as they do from an extremely priviledged position, having an absolute monopoly, which puts them in the position to benefit financially from the hard work and popularity of the individual clubs and players, and the dedication and generosity of the fans). As such we should expect the highest standards of professionalism and transparency from them.

So the 'angles of attack' should be transparency and consistency. Prestwich Blue has identified the correct approach. Who makes the rules, how are they applied? What potential conflicts of interest arise? Why is this not completely transparent? Why are disciplinary matters not handled completely independantly of the FA's other business? What is the relationship between the the people who make and decide how the rules are applied off the pitch, and the referees?

very tired, so I will have another think about this and do some reading over the next few days.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.thefa.com/TheFA/Disciplinary/NewsAndFeatures/2009/The_FA_Discipline_Handbook.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.thefa.com/TheFA/Disciplinary ... dbook.aspx</a>

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.thefa.com/TheFA/RulesandRegulations/~/media/Files/PDF/TheFA/RulesoftheAssociation0809.ashx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.thefa.com/TheFA/RulesandRegu ... n0809.ashx</a>

Hi Bizzbo,

Any more thoughts?

Monty

 

[SboroBlu]

This my reply from the FA


Thank you for your e-mail. The Football Association receives frequent correspondence on individual refereeing decisions across all levels of football as well as on the performance of referees in general. Every supporter will have an opinion on the game’s major talking points and we’re always interested to hear them. It's a revealing fact that for every piece of correspondence we have from supporters complaining of a bias to a particular club we have the same amount claiming a bias against that club.

There are set procedures in place for when The FA can take retrospective action in relation to incidents that have not been seen by the Match Officials at the time. In contrast, if an incident was witnessed by the referee at the time, The FA generally has no power to take retrospective action, due to FIFA directions. Similarly, The FA has been given express direction from FIFA that we cannot upgrade yellow cards to red. On this basis, we can only bring additional charges in the most exceptional cases.

Whilst 100% consistency is impossible when human judgment is introduced into a situation, referees get the overwhelmingly majority of decisions right. In fact they are arguably the most consistent people in the game making split-second decisions that will be analysed repeatedly by slow motion cameras and panels of football experts. The FIFA laws of the game stipulate that we cannot re-referee matches by issuing or upgrading cards on incidents that the referee has scene.

Supporters often compare incidents with others and ask why the same actions are not taken? This is simply due to no two incidents being the same. The Football Association takes its disciplinary procedures very seriously and judges each investigation on its merits.

We do appreciate all of the feedback we receive from supporters. This feedback is collated and used to build a picture of public opinion and is subsequently fed back internally within the organisation. Please rest assured your suggestions will form part of this feedback process.

Kind regards

Tracey Bates | Customer Relations Assistant
Communications
The FA Group
Wembley Stadium I Wembley | London | HA9 0WS
Postal address: Wembley Stadium, PO Box 1966, London SW1P 9EQ
T +44 (0) 844 980 8200 # 4707
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.TheFA.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">www.TheFA.com</a>

**If you wish to reply, please click on the link below to go to the contact us form**
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.thefa.com/feedback" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.thefa.com/feedback</a>

 

[judleberry]

Really sorry folks if this has already been posted on this thread (only managed to read through half of it thus far). But this article might be worth a look at as well as it also contains some very valid arguements. Can't even remember which paper it was in now, just had to type in some of the words in it that i could remember and low and behold, it appeared, think it was written by a lass called Sarah if I remember correctly:

"The FA has had to consider the challenge itself and not the outcome of it. The FA has been given express direction from FIFA that we cannot upgrade yellow cards to red. On this basis we can only bring additional charges in the most exceptional cases and only if it can be proved beyond doubt the actions of a player were a deliberate attempt to injure an opponent."
So said the FA when they refused to upgrade the yellow card issued to Chris Morgan for the apparent elbow that fractured Iain Hume's skull and almost ended his career because referee Andy D'Urso had seen the incident and only issued a booking. Despite the video evidence being damning, the FA's hands were tied by FIFA regulations.
Never mind the horrendous damage to Hume's physical person and to his psyche, the edict handed down by FIFA was that referees were to be backed. If the official sees an incident and decides it merits only a yellow card, the FA are supposedly powerless to change that punishment.
The exception to the rule came with the Ben Thatcher 'challenge' on Pedro Mendes, when even the FA had to admit that referee Dermot Gallagher had got it horrendously wrong when showing a yellow card for possibly the worst 'challenge' you will ever see on the football pitch.
But Morgan's elbow on Hume - out of the game for nine months as a result - did not fall into the same category, while Ashley Cole's two-footed foul on Alan Hutton, Michael Brown's apparent stamp onto the legs of Ryan Giggs and Julio Arca's badly mistimed 'tackle' on Andy Johnson could not be upgraded either. Sorry chaps, FIFA says yellow cards can only be upgraded 'if it can be proved beyond doubt the actions of a player were a deliberate attempt to injure an opponent'.
Or if you run the length of the pitch to slide in front of a group of 'fans' who don't have the self-control not to react in a yobbish fashion (though you'll notice that none were quite incensed enough to breach the minimal security with anything but thrown objects), of course. Now that's an 'exceptional case'.
To argue that Adebayor does not deserve punishment for the stamp on the head of Robin van Persie - though I'm with Philip Cornwall in believing he was hoping to catch his arm rather than his head - would be absurd (I'm giving John Nicholson the benefit of the doubt that his tongue was firmly in cheek) but to charge him for a celebration that has already been punished is equally absurd.
Adebayor did not hit anyone or even make offensive gestures - he just rather stupidly ran the length of the pitch in a selfish manner to celebrate rather an important goal. That's all. He was booked. He hurt nobody, and anyone that was hurt as a 'consequence' needs to look to Arsenal fans for any compensation.
If the FA cannot upgrade yellow cards for challenges that could lead to the end of careers, how on earth can they justify an additional charge for sliding on your knees at the 'wrong' end of the pitch? Oh, it was live on television and perpetrated by one of the media's pet hate figures, you say? Ah, that explains everything.

 

[Montgomery Burns]

I've now written to the Football Supporters Federation as discussed about 20 pages back - I'll let you know what they say.

 

[Montgomery Burns]

This my reply from the FA


Thank you for your e-mail. The Football Association receives frequent correspondence on individual refereeing decisions across all levels of football as well as on the performance of referees in general. Every supporter will have an opinion on the game’s major talking points and we’re always interested to hear them. It's a revealing fact that for every piece of correspondence we have from supporters complaining of a bias to a particular club we have the same amount claiming a bias against that club.

There are set procedures in place for when The FA can take retrospective action in relation to incidents that have not been seen by the Match Officials at the time. In contrast, if an incident was witnessed by the referee at the time, The FA generally has no power to take retrospective action, due to FIFA directions. Similarly, The FA has been given express direction from FIFA that we cannot upgrade yellow cards to red. On this basis, we can only bring additional charges in the most exceptional cases.

Whilst 100% consistency is impossible when human judgment is introduced into a situation, referees get the overwhelmingly majority of decisions right. In fact they are arguably the most consistent people in the game making split-second decisions that will be analysed repeatedly by slow motion cameras and panels of football experts. The FIFA laws of the game stipulate that we cannot re-referee matches by issuing or upgrading cards on incidents that the referee has scene.

Supporters often compare incidents with others and ask why the same actions are not taken? This is simply due to no two incidents being the same. The Football Association takes its disciplinary procedures very seriously and judges each investigation on its merits.

We do appreciate all of the feedback we receive from supporters. This feedback is collated and used to build a picture of public opinion and is subsequently fed back internally within the organisation. Please rest assured your suggestions will form part of this feedback process.

Kind regards

Tracey Bates | Customer Relations Assistant
Communications
The FA Group
Wembley Stadium I Wembley | London | HA9 0WS
Postal address: Wembley Stadium, PO Box 1966, London SW1P 9EQ
T +44 (0) 844 980 8200 # 4707
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.TheFA.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.TheFA.com</a>

**If you wish to reply, please click on the link below to go to the contact us form**
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.thefa.com/feedback" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.thefa.com/feedback</a>

Cheers SBoro,

Can you remind us what your e-mail asked, so we can put the reply in some context?

Thanks

 

[moomba]

In contrast, if an incident was witnessed by the referee at the time, The FA generally has no power to take retrospective action, due to FIFA directions. Similarly, The FA has been given express direction from FIFA that we cannot upgrade yellow cards to red. On this basis, we can only bring additional charges in the most exceptional cases.

I would be interested in a follow up question to Tracey Bates.

Did the referee not see Adebayors celebration, ordo the FA only apply their own rules when it suits them?