Ferran Soriano & Txiki Begiristain

[Marvin]

Yaya Toure and Silva are great talents but instead of a system being devised to suit the players we seem to be trying to fit these players into a system for which they are not suited

Been particularly annoying to see David Silva, one of the best midfielders in the game reduced to an ineffectual player as a direct result of the manager's selection.

Get Negredo on his own up front, or Auero, with Jovetic in behind and 4 men in midfield and Navas on the bench and we'll be flying. The potential in the squad gives me hope, the inclination of the manager to play every forward he can is unsettling. Let's hope he has learned something

 

[BlueAnorak]

Well we won't win the Premier League ever if we carry on playing the same suicidal high line of defence.

If the suicidal high-line defending continues, Pellegrini will be lucky to qualify for the Champions League - let alone having a shot at the Premier League title. Fortunately Pellegrini has a track-record of pragmatism so I certainly think he will dump the tactic in the very near future, But if he doesn't he will be out of a job in November - it is as simple as that.

Txiki's tenure depends on us doing better over the next three years than in the previous three years. If we don't do better he will be gone too. That is the 'Holistic' model.

no it isn't.

In your opinion.
In my opinion Txiki is not that safe because of Txiki's failure to back the manager publicly during the season and deal with the Barca inspired leaks in March and the week before the cup final. I am led to believe the Sheikh was furious and delivered a collective bollocking to the whole management team - but then again that is hearsay from my contacts in Abu Dhabi. The Sheikh still backed them though against Mancini - AS HE WAS BOUND TO DO - however; I don't believe the rope he has given them will be that long as a result.

The manager can only be jettisoned as a crash test dummy a limited number of times before the DOF is also ejected. If so If I was Txiki I'd be getting Pellegini to reign in the suicidal high line defending fairly quickly - because it isn't doing to work. After AC Milan and Arsenal's 3 goals apiece and both Cardiff & Hull messing up 3 good chances as a result of it failing, I can't see it ever working with the current personnel,

 

[CITYBOY1000]

Well we won't win the Premier League ever if we carry on playing the same suicidal high line of defence.

If the suicidal high-line defending continues, Pellegrini will be lucky to qualify for the Champions League - let alone having a shot at the Premier League title. Fortunately Pellegrini has a track-record of pragmatism so I certainly think he will dump the tactic in the very near future, But if he doesn't he will be out of a job in November - it is as simple as that.

Txiki's tenure depends on us doing better over the next three years than in the previous three years. If we don't do better he will be gone too. That is the 'Holistic' model.

I agree. I'm happy to give Peeligrini a run but I just hope he learns from AVB's mistakes at Chelsea. It doesn't work. AVB has acknowledge it now. The English game isn't suited to a high defensive line due to its dynamic -"win the ball, lose the ball, win it back" mentality and everyone hitting everyone else on the break. I'm also a little worried about the change from zonal to man-to-man marking. Why fix what isn't broken ?

It is too early to judge him on the Cardiff and Hull games. He's going to get a full season regardless of what anyone wants. The owners won't be changing managers anytime soon as it sends out the wrong signals to prospective replacement managers and players. The managerial merry-go-round has never worked on so many levels.

He is unproven in the sense that he hasn't won any major European trophy but he has made a few sows' ears into silk purses so he deserves credit for that. Just wonder whether he's suited to a club that has all the money and players. Is he best working on a tight budget and bringing lesser players to a new level, bit like Brian Clough or even Hugheless to some degree and maybe Moyse ? Or, will he thrive at City ?

Going to be an interesting season anyway, as always when watching City.

 

[BlueAnorak]

The change from Zonal to Man-for-Man marking worries me a bit but aside from Cardiff when Zab was beaten by his man big time it hasn't really bothered us that much.

 

[Bill]

Care to elaborate on how exactly you think the club has made such a huge mistake?

Cheers.

By replacing a winner with a nice manager who in reality has won nothing.Am I not allowed to think that?believe me I know many a blue who feel the same but are just keeping quiet for now.

Minds made up after 3 games. Brilliant

both mancini and hughes were hated by some before a ball was kicked.

 

[franksinatra]

Yaya Toure and Silva are great talents but instead of a system being devised to suit the players we seem to be trying to fit these players into a system for which they are not suited

Been particularly annoying to see David Silva, one of the best midfielders in the game reduced to an ineffectual player as a direct result of the manager's selection.

Get Negredo on his own up front, or Auero, with Jovetic in behind and 4 men in midfield and Navas on the bench and we'll be flying. The potential in the squad gives me hope, the inclination of the manager to play every forward he can is unsettling. Let's hope he has learned something

So where would you play Silva Marvin? Their is a great demand on this forum to see him playing centrally, as he can influence the game more, but would this be to the benefit of the team or David Silva.

United scored 85 goals last year to win the league and we will require something similar. The problem we have is the players are not suited, or unproven, to playing only one up top. If we moved Silva centrally would he be able to get the required goals playing off the striker to compensate for the loss of goals? Similarly would Jovetic be able to grab 20 goals on his debut season as historically it suggests Navas and Silva will not be significant contributors and Yaya seems to playing more withdrawn since the arrival of Fernandinho.

Mancini himself identified this after winning the FA Cup that the team was short of goals playing only Tevez up top with Yaya supporting, hence the purchase of Aguero and the evolvement to two strikers with support from wide areas from Silva and Nasri.

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

If the suicidal high-line defending continues, Pellegrini will be lucky to qualify for the Champions League - let alone having a shot at the Premier League title. Fortunately Pellegrini has a track-record of pragmatism so I certainly think he will dump the tactic in the very near future, But if he doesn't he will be out of a job in November - it is as simple as that.

Txiki's tenure depends on us doing better over the next three years than in the previous three years. If we don't do better he will be gone too. That is the 'Holistic' model.

no it isn't.

In your opinion.
In my opinion Txiki is not that safe because of Txiki's failure to back the manager publicly during the season and deal with the Barca inspired leaks in March and the week before the cup final. I am led to believe the Sheikh was furious and delivered a collective bollocking to the whole management team - but then again that is hearsay from my contacts in Abu Dhabi. The Sheikh still backed them though against Mancini - AS HE WAS BOUND TO DO - however; I don't believe the rope he has given them will be that long as a result.

The manager can only be jettisoned as a crash test dummy a limited number of times before the DOF is also ejected. If so If I was Txiki I'd be getting Pellegini to reign in the suicidal high line defending fairly quickly - because it isn't doing to work. After AC Milan and Arsenal's 3 goals apiece and both Cardiff & Hull messing up 3 good chances as a result of it failing, I can't see it ever working with the current personnel,

A bitter Rosell was always going to cause what issues he could when Txiki and Ferran turned up. Mancini's sacking was a mess but you have to give people the chance to learn from it and we had a productive summer. Nobody complained when we had Tevez, Aguero, Dzeko and Balo that we had too many strikers and all summer people were saying we wouldn't have enough. Now we have Aguero, Dzeko, Negredo and Guidetti(if fit) with Jovetic providing competition to Nasri suddenly we have too many attackers.

You're right that the current personnel couldn't play high line, that's because they were Lescott and Garcia for Cardiff. You equally have to give the players a chance to adapt and Pelle time to work on things but I don't think high line will go away, I think it will be effective in Europe but that it will be refined and not just thrown out there at random times like Mancini's absurd 3-5-2 almost "fuck this" experiments.

 

[BlueAnorak]

A bitter Rosell was always going to cause what issues he could when Txiki and Ferran turned up. Mancini's sacking was a mess but you have to give people the chance to learn from it and we had a productive summer. Nobody complained when we had Tevez, Aguero, Dzeko and Balo that we had too many strikers and all summer people were saying we wouldn't have enough. Now we have Aguero, Dzeko, Negredo and Guidetti(if fit) with Jovetic providing competition to Nasri suddenly we have too many attackers.

As things stand I haven't got many problems with our strikers and AMs. Only their pressing which I think will come. Negredo is a great purchase, Dzeko has improved and I really like Navas - I like Jovetic too who will give us loads more options when he is fit.

You're right that the current personnel couldn't play high line, that's because they were Lescott and Garcia for Cardiff. You equally have to give the players a chance to adapt and Pelle time to work on things but I don't think high line will go away, I think it will be effective in Europe but that it will be refined and not just thrown out there at random times like Mancini's absurd 3-5-2 almost "fuck this" experiments.

We can't play the high line that well even when Nastastic and Kompany are fit.
For sure it may be a tactic worth using occasionally in the CL but if we don't start to press better up front and YaYa starts closes down players properly (who receive the breakout ball) it will be suicidal there as well. YaYa is the biggest problem their full stop. He makes so many mistakes by either getting too close to a player (allowing him to be turned) or not getting close enough allowing the ball to be passed through the back line. In short he is not a DM. He is a box to box mid who should play higher up the pitch (he can also play centre half too as it happens).

 

[Marvin]

Yaya Toure and Silva are great talents but instead of a system being devised to suit the players we seem to be trying to fit these players into a system for which they are not suited

Been particularly annoying to see David Silva, one of the best midfielders in the game reduced to an ineffectual player as a direct result of the manager's selection.

Get Negredo on his own up front, or Auero, with Jovetic in behind and 4 men in midfield and Navas on the bench and we'll be flying. The potential in the squad gives me hope, the inclination of the manager to play every forward he can is unsettling. Let's hope he has learned something

So where would you play Silva Marvin? Their is a great demand on this forum to see him playing centrally, as he can influence the game more, but would this be to the benefit of the team or David Silva.

United scored 85 goals last year to win the league and we will require something similar. The problem we have is the players are not suited, or unproven, to playing only one up top. If we moved Silva centrally would he be able to get the required goals playing off the striker to compensate for the loss of goals? Similarly would Jovetic be able to grab 20 goals on his debut season as historically it suggests Navas and Silva will not be significant contributors and Yaya seems to playing more withdrawn since the arrival of Fernandinho.

Mancini himself identified this after winning the FA Cup that the team was short of goals playing only Tevez up top with Yaya supporting, hence the purchase of Aguero and the evolvement to two strikers with support from wide areas from Silva and Nasri.

It's no so much where on the pitch 'd play him as he moves and makes himself available wherever the ball is but I'd make sure that there are a minimum of 4 nominal midfielders if not 5.

We either play narrow with Silva or wide with Navas and drop Silva. Alternatively we play Navas and Silva but play just one up front......which makes a nonsense of the number of forwards we have

 

[CITYBOY1000]

A bitter Rosell was always going to cause what issues he could when Txiki and Ferran turned up. Mancini's sacking was a mess but you have to give people the chance to learn from it and we had a productive summer. Nobody complained when we had Tevez, Aguero, Dzeko and Balo that we had too many strikers and all summer people were saying we wouldn't have enough. Now we have Aguero, Dzeko, Negredo and Guidetti(if fit) with Jovetic providing competition to Nasri suddenly we have too many attackers.

As things stand I haven't got many problems with our strikers and AMs. Only their pressing which I think will come. Negredo is a great purchase, Dzeko has improved and I really like Navas - I like Jovetic too who will give us loads more options when he is fit.

You're right that the current personnel couldn't play high line, that's because they were Lescott and Garcia for Cardiff. You equally have to give the players a chance to adapt and Pelle time to work on things but I don't think high line will go away, I think it will be effective in Europe but that it will be refined and not just thrown out there at random times like Mancini's absurd 3-5-2 almost "fuck this" experiments.

We can't play the high line that well even when Nastastic and Kompany are fit.
For sure it may be a tactic worth using occasionally in the CL but if we don't start to press better up front and YaYa starts closes down players properly (who receive the breakout ball) it will be suicidal there as well. YaYa is the biggest problem their full stop. He makes so many mistakes by either getting too close to a player (allowing him to be turned) or not getting close enough allowing the ball to be passed through the back line. In short he is not a DM. He is a box to box mid who should play higher up the pitch (he can also play centre half too as it happens).

I've heard this 'Yaya in central defence' a few times. Maybe now is the time to see it put into practice with Vinni, Demi and Micah out. I can't envisage a more dire situation at the heart of our defence and with the 'rags' coming up soon. The prospect of Lescott playing a high-line with the girl persie and Wellsh*t running the channels worries me I must say.