FFP facing legal challenge (updated pg 12)

Re: Wall St Journal Article on FFP

What gets me is how FFP is a blanket rule across nations yet each country is run differently.

In our country we have a north and south divide which means London clubs are able to get revenue via costs due to wealthier fans. Then you have taxation, if Monaco become a European giant in 10 years time how will FFP govern their low tax in comparison to ours which is 45% (I believe). Straight away Monaco get away with paying less wages due to tax whereas we have to make up higher wages to compete on an equal footing etc.

This wholw ruling has more holes than Rab C Nesbitts vest. Can't wait until a club takes Uefa to task over it in court.
 
Re: Wall St Journal Article on FFP

I think I will deal with Enzo red in son's post with my replies in bold. For the record in my limited years on this website it is possibly the worst reasoned and illogical post on here.

enzoedinson said:
I'm going to try and defend FFP.

Why was FFP introduced? FFP is intended to prevent clubs from running major deficits year over year. Wrong, marketed as such but really protectionism by indirect means. We've seen this in club after club, rich owners pick a club, run huge deficits, and the team screws up and doesn't do what the owner hoped for, they sell or the club goes into administration. Have been cases like that most notably Portsmouth but a well regulated fit and proper test would deal with this. Seems like every week we hear a new story about a club that racked up a lot of debt and is in administration. It's unfortunate and something needed to be done. Agreed but fit and proper test and ensuring that football clubs are run by people or at least employ people with a basic understanding of finance would be a start. UEFA recognizes that for every Manchester City, who has a good owner who hires good people to actually make the goal a success, there are 5 or 10 failures. And then what you have a club taken away from the supporters on the whim of a billionaire who treated the club like a plaything. Portsmouth is an example, and I'm sure you can think of many others. Actually United are a better example, revenues from the club are used to pay the owners debt and restrict the clubs spending and development. Portsmouth were purchased by a loudmouth spoofer with no real money brought in, debts created in the purchase were the problem there, not investment itself

I've read through the thread and most arguments tend to be that this was all a conspiracy of the big clubs, even though at least half of the big clubs are in this position of racking up massive debt who would love to go along spending their fortunes propping up a club. If the cap fits, the rules brought in should preserve the elite as they stand at present. It would suit people like the Glazers immensely if the rules were brought in as they could be the biggest fish without having to compete with big spending new boys like PSG or City.

FFP exempts from its spending calculations money spent on infrastructure, which will encourage clubs to home-grow their talent over buying it on the market, and to build new stadiums and seek new revenue streams. Funnily enought that should suit clubs in France where the Euros are due to be held, coincidental I'm sure. Clubs can still buy on the market, but they will have to show that it's sustainable. It will really be like any other business where you have to grow at a sustainable pace --- UEFA is just mandating a sound business practice. So Microsoft, Apple, Facebook or Amazon should really have restricted their own growth to lower levels to make sure it was sustainable? They should've stayed away from investors seeking to invest in the business even though those companies weren't making money at the time? Alarming logic there. Ensuring that all the clubs are not running major deficits is no different than bank regulators requiring banks to hold a certain percentage of deposits. Clubs that have been bank rolled by certain owners are showing no deficits at all. Also bank rgulations are also to ensure proper lending ratios etc. Rampant debt would be a problem for certain banks and many business but not for certain clubs under FFP. Regulation is necessary. True but not arbitrary rules that have one effect- to reduce outside investment. It's also called protectionism.

Why is unlimited spending a bad thing? For one, it artificially inflates transfer fees and salaries, as the rich owners compete with each other for their favored players. Why would transfer fees and salaries be artifically inflated. The market sets these levels no one else. And do you think the current system is "fair"? What system is Communism? Clubs that consistently break even are completely disadvantaged against clubs that can fund unlimited deficits year over year. Under the FFP system clubs that have deeper pockets will have an inbuilt systematic and perpetual advantage. Eventually, the benefactor may get bored and leave. That can leave the club in an awful position. Not the case where the deficits have been covered, though how many benefactors have got bored and abandoned their clubs? If costs exceed revenues the owner will most likely rationalise before a sale so they can at least have an assey to sell. And of course, losing clubs means we lose history, entertainment value, culture, etc. etc. Imagine if you were a Rangers or Pompey fan. Through no fault of you or any other supporter, your club was fucked over by a rich **** and now you're in the shit. Neither were f'ed over by a rich owner, the owners weren't rich enough and in both cases saddled the club with debt and in Rangers case there were additional legacy issues with respect to taxes. A robust fit and proper test would have solved both those issues. l don't want to be in that position. You needn't worry the Glazers aren't that bad really.

As for this lawyer guy, shame on all of you for not recognizing this guy has a vested interest in arguing these FFP rules are invalid. He can make millions trying to overturn them. It is an opinion piece, so funnily enough he has given an opinion. Also, just because an attorney gives an opinion, doesn't mean it's correct. There are always two or three or four sides of an argument, and competition law is notoriously hard to predict because the rules are very theoretical and open to the whims of the court. THE ECJ is not usually open to whim and I would think that in the circumstances he has given very clear rationale for his opinion. Also, I would be very surprised if this was overturned. Cases often turn on the inherent justice of a law, and this law doesn't strike me as unjust in any way that a judge will care about. There are not enough restraints on either clubs or players to justify overturning it. Your opinion of course but in mine this is utter, utter nonsense, possibly the clearest case of anti-competitive behaviour I have seen in a long time. There are reasons why it may take a long time before the ECJ is troubled with the case but any actions taken by a European wide body which have the effect of making inward investment difficult except for certain clubs, restrict the possible future earnings of certain clubs, are soft on debt but restrictive on investment and which have the effect of creating a cartel will always fall foul of the ECJ.

For example if the owners of all airlines in the EU brought in rules that limited similar investments in airlines, with guidelines based on the current revenues of the airlines with possible exclusions from certain airports for breaches of the regulations they would be thrown at the first instance at the ECJ.

Finally, the real danger with FFP, as Arsene Wenger pointed out, is that big clubs will be able to challenge the rules through legal maneuvers and avoid the regulations altogether. Because the rules are slightly arbitrary and badly drafted circumventing them shouldn't be difficult. You already see PSG trying every sneaky trick they can to circumvent them, and I can't even imagine what the Russian clubs will try. Why not the rules are designed to protect United, Bayern, Real et al good luck to PSG any anyone else who wants to get round them. Our own deal with Etihad may be justified (as I think it probably is) because they are getting significant value from the name recognition they have now. Don't you mean your deal with Chevy? But anyway Etihad are not an associated company as pointed out elsewhere under normal accounting standards. But these fake commercial deals need to be addressed very seriously. That is the only plausible conspiracy theory I think could be a reality.
 
Re: Wall St Journal Article on FFP

FFP does not address debt and would not prevent another Portsmouth happening. It does not make clubs more sustainable and nor does it tackle high wages. There has never been a successful business model which prohibits business owners from investing in their products. It is a complete nonsense dreamed up by the idiots who run football...most of whom have no business experience at any level and are just political puppets. What exactly are Platini's financial credentials? Virtually all football's financial problems have been caused by managerial incompetence (Leeds, Pompey) or leveraged buy-outs where people, who do not have enough of their own money, are allowed to take over clubs by borrowing against their new assets. A ban on leveraged buy-outs plus a more rigorous "fit and proper person's test" would solve most of the problems. Wages controls, assuming they could be co-ordinated worldwide, would also be a great help to creating a flatter pitch. It is only clubs like United and Bayern Munich who don't want a flat pitch.
 
Re: Wall St Journal Article on FFP

Hopefully this just delays FFP being implemented for a few years, thus allowing us to make the final steps in improving our squad, without restriction, before raising the drawbridge to the castle which is the Champions League.
 
Re: Wall St Journal Article on FFP

kenzie115 said:
Hopefully this just delays FFP being implemented for a few years, thus allowing us to make the final steps in improving our squad, without restriction, before raising the drawbridge to the castle which is the Champions League.

Preventing shareholders and owners investing in the clubs/companies is simply contrary to English and European law. It won't delay FFPR, this will prevent it. The Sheikh will not spend on the level he has over the years since 2008 because that spending was for a purpose which has been achieved. Policy now concentrates on long term sustainability.
 
Re: Wall St Journal Article on FFP

rag_hater said:
the talisman said:
enzoedinson said:
I'm going to try and defend FFP.

Why was FFP introduced? FFP is intended to prevent clubs from running major deficits year over year. We've seen this in club after club, rich owners pick a club, run huge deficits, and the team screws up and doesn't do what the owner hoped for, they sell or the club goes into administration. Seems like every week we hear a new story about a club that racked up a lot of debt and is in administration. It's unfortunate and something needed to be done. UEFA recognizes that for every Manchester City, who has a good owner who hires good people to actually make the goal a success, there are 5 or 10 failures. And then what you have a club taken away from the supporters on the whim of a billionaire who treated the club like a plaything. Portsmouth is an example, and I'm sure you can think of many others.

I've read through the thread and most arguments tend to be that this was all a conspiracy of the big clubs, even though at least half of the big clubs are in this position of racking up massive debt who would love to go along spending their fortunes propping up a club.

FFP exempts from its spending calculations money spent on infrastructure, which will encourage clubs to home-grow their talent over buying it on the market, and to build new stadiums and seek new revenue streams. Clubs can still buy on the market, but they will have to show that it's sustainable. It will really be like any other business where you have to grow at a sustainable pace --- UEFA is just mandating a sound business practice. Ensuring that all the clubs are not running major deficits is no different than bank regulators requiring banks to hold a certain percentage of deposits. Regulation is necessary.

Why is unlimited spending a bad thing? For one, it artificially inflates transfer fees and salaries, as the rich owners compete with each other for their favored players. And do you think the current system is "fair"? Clubs that consistently break even are completely disadvantaged against clubs that can fund unlimited deficits year over year. Eventually, the benefactor may get bored and leave. That can leave the club in an awful position. And of course, losing clubs means we lose history, entertainment value, culture, etc. etc. Imagine if you were a Rangers or Pompey fan. Through no fault of you or any other supporter, your club was fucked over by a rich **** and now you're in the shit. I wouldn't want to be in that position.

As for this lawyer guy, shame on all of you for not recognizing this guy has a vested interest in arguing these FFP rules are invalid. He can make millions trying to overturn them. Also, just because an attorney gives an opinion, doesn't mean it's correct. There are always two or three or four sides of an argument, and competition law is notoriously hard to predict because the rules are very theoretical and open to the whims of the court. Also, I would be very surprised if this was overturned. Cases often turn on the inherent justice of a law, and this law doesn't strike me as unjust in any way that a judge will care about. There are not enough restraints on either clubs or players to justify overturning it.

Finally, the real danger with FFP, as Arsene Wenger pointed out, is that big clubs will be able to challenge the rules through legal maneuvers and avoid the regulations altogether. You already see PSG trying every sneaky trick they can to circumvent them, and I can't even imagine what the Russian clubs will try. Our own deal with Etihad may be justified (as I think it probably is) because they are getting significant value from the name recognition they have now. But these fake commercial deals need to be addressed very seriously. That is the only plausible conspiracy theory I think could be a reality.

If FFP was brought in to stop clubs going to the wall then it would address the problem of debt, which it doesn't.

It could also include ways of spreading the money generated more evenly through the game, it doesn't.

It could try to level the playing field with measures such as a draft or a salary cap, it doesn't.

It stops people putting their own money into their own businesses, how would this have stopped a Portsmouth situation?

What it does is entrench the clubs with high revenue and prevent other clubs from challenging them, to think otherwise is naive in the extreme.

Oh, and why do these "fake commercial deals " need to be addressed so urgently, are they putting any clubs at risk.....?

Is that not what lawyers do and has not Uefa just strenghtenned their legal team ready to argue.


Good that he does as WE have a vested interest. May not be the same but if hes happy we are happy.
 
Re: Wall St Journal Article on FFP

kenzie115 said:
Hopefully this just delays FFP being implemented for a few years, thus allowing us to make the final steps in improving our squad, without restriction, before raising the drawbridge to the castle which is the Champions League.
"Raising the drawbridge" is exactly what the established big clubs are trying to do to us. I don't want City to do to smaller clubs what the Shite are trying to do to us. We're better than that.

We should be arguing for a free market in football, the same as it has been for the last 50 years or whenever it was the maximum wage was abolished. I don't want City to be part of a bullying cartel who invent rules to suit themselves and fuck everyone else over. I want us to win, but winning is hollow if you change the rules so that you've got a huge advantage over your competition.

I want us to win fair and square. Unfortunately it seems 2012 might be the last ever league title won in a free market Premier League.
 
Re: Wall St Journal Article on FFP

They new it wouldn't stop us it was to late what it does is stop another wealthy owner buying a club and spending billions to displace say the rags from top 4 thats why!
 
Re: Wall St Journal Article on FFP

Shaelumstash said:
kenzie115 said:
Hopefully this just delays FFP being implemented for a few years, thus allowing us to make the final steps in improving our squad, without restriction, before raising the drawbridge to the castle which is the Champions League.
"Raising the drawbridge" is exactly what the established big clubs are trying to do to us. I don't want City to do to smaller clubs what the Shite are trying to do to us. We're better than that.

We should be arguing for a free market in football, the same as it has been for the last 50 years or whenever it was the maximum wage was abolished. I don't want City to be part of a bullying cartel who invent rules to suit themselves and fuck everyone else over. I want us to win, but winning is hollow if you change the rules so that you've got a huge advantage over your competition.

I want us to win fair and square. Unfortunately it seems 2012 might be the last ever league title won in a free market Premier League.

Totally agree. Anything won by Europe's cartel from here on in will always be tainted in my eyes. What irritates me most is the criticism of City with no comeback whatsoever from the club,we just seem to be pandering to the very clubs that instigated these rules.
 
Re: Wall St Journal Article on FFP

jake28 said:
Shaelumstash said:
kenzie115 said:
Hopefully this just delays FFP being implemented for a few years, thus allowing us to make the final steps in improving our squad, without restriction, before raising the drawbridge to the castle which is the Champions League.
"Raising the drawbridge" is exactly what the established big clubs are trying to do to us. I don't want City to do to smaller clubs what the Shite are trying to do to us. We're better than that.

We should be arguing for a free market in football, the same as it has been for the last 50 years or whenever it was the maximum wage was abolished. I don't want City to be part of a bullying cartel who invent rules to suit themselves and fuck everyone else over. I want us to win, but winning is hollow if you change the rules so that you've got a huge advantage over your competition.

I want us to win fair and square. Unfortunately it seems 2012 might be the last ever league title won in a free market Premier League.

Totally agree. Anything won by Europe's cartel from here on in will always be tainted in my eyes. What irritates me most is the criticism of City with no comeback whatsoever from the club,we just seem to be pandering to the very clubs that instigated these rules.

We as a club don't want to be seen as upsetting the apple-cart - very shrewd move imo as Abu Dhabi is linked to how City handle themselves in the public eye. There will be, in the future a player or a club who will take UEFA to court over the FFPR's. Until then we can easily comply to the guidelines set without any of the plans set by ADUG failing.
 
Re: Wall St Journal Article on FFP

I have never had any doubt that FFPR are anti-competitive and open to a successful challenge in the ECJ; not that I am a lawyer.

My opinion is that City will play along with FFP only so far as it suits them.

I'd like to think that City are playing the long game here. I think they are being cautious about FFP but I am also sure that they want to move City to a sensible sustainable business model and FFPR can be a tool for that. I am sure that City do not want to antagonize UEFA, other teams, the media etc unless they have to.

We do not know for sure how much money Mansour is prepared to throw at achieving his ambitions for City but I doubt that he continually wants to pay over the odds for transfer fees and wages indefinitely.

I could be wrong. City could be running scared of UEFA. The guys that run City may not be as smart or as cunning as I give them credit for. Even if they are as bright as I hope, they are not beyond making mistakes, and putting the brakes on the spending as they did last summer may prove to have been a big blunder. Some would say that it has already proved itself to be a serious misjudgment but that picture, and City's true intent, should become much clearer over the next year or so.
 
Re: Wall St Journal Article on FFP

Shaelumstash said:
kenzie115 said:
Hopefully this just delays FFP being implemented for a few years, thus allowing us to make the final steps in improving our squad, without restriction, before raising the drawbridge to the castle which is the Champions League.
"Raising the drawbridge" is exactly what the established big clubs are trying to do to us. I don't want City to do to smaller clubs what the Shite are trying to do to us. We're better than that.

We should be arguing for a free market in football, the same as it has been for the last 50 years or whenever it was the maximum wage was abolished. I don't want City to be part of a bullying cartel who invent rules to suit themselves and fuck everyone else over. I want us to win, but winning is hollow if you change the rules so that you've got a huge advantage over your competition.

I want us to win fair and square. Unfortunately it seems 2012 might be the last ever league title won in a free market Premier League.

It's clear to anyone that these rules have been created to hinder us and as such no-one can believe we had anything to do with their creation. However, the fact is, if they come to fruition they'll help keep us at the top for years, and I'm not about to complain about that.
 
Re: Wall St Journal Article on FFP

stony said:
stehorts said:
For the first time in a long time, a thread worth reading on bluemoon which is informative and hasn't descended into the normal bitching!
Only my opinion, but I suspect city will ensure they comply to the regulations for next year, and wait for another team to fall foul of the laws (one inevitably will) and challenge them. I guess City firmly believe (like the author of the article) the rules will be blown out by the ECJ -which will leave City in an incredibly strong position.

City can stand firm and say they complied with the rules when they were brought in, and truthfully say they had no involvement in trying to dismiss them for their own personal benefit. They will then have a clear run on doing exactly what they want. Meanwhille, until the rules are over-turned, we should have a squad capable of winning trophies domestically and compete in Europe. The future is very bright - I really don't understand the negativity in general on the forum - although I do appreciate the disappointment of this season (its only a temporary hangover - which still might end with the FA Cup!)

I think city are playing it perfectly by staying quiet, and have effectively given certain un-named clubs enough rope to hang themselves...

I think you'll find it's the same small group of posters who are making all the noise.

Stehorts post has really cheered me up. Ty :)
 
Re: Wall St Journal Article on FFP

I can't really add anything substantial to the quality of this thread which is superb

However this article comes the horses mouth: -

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/Tech/uefaorg/General/01/91/61/84/1916184_DOWNLOAD.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Dow ... WNLOAD.pdf</a>

It doesn't take a genius to work out the hypocrisy and pomposity of FFPR, UEFA and Platini.
 
Re: Wall St Journal Article on FFP

gordondaviesmoustache said:
88ster said:
An article from yesterday. please delete if already posted

<a class="postlink" href="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324077704578357992271428024.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 28024.html</a>

Normally, if a trade association introduced rules that raised barriers to entry and entrenched dominant players, antitrust regulators would be up in arms. Yet UEFA—the Union of European Football Associations—seems to enjoy the support, even the encouragement, of the European Commission on new rules that will do just that.

The Financial Fair Play (FFP) rules, which come into force in the 2013-14 season, prevent football clubs from spending more than what they earn each year. Clubs that do not comply with this "break-even" principle will face sanctions, including a potential ban on participation in UEFA competitions.

The new rules, which were first proposed in 2009, are supposedly meant to stop clubs' ballooning financial losses, which according to UEFA have threatened both individual, highly popular clubs and the future of European football as a whole.

All of this sounds reasonable at first. But as an agreement whereby industry participants jointly decide to limit investments, FFP likely constitutes collusion and hence a violation of EU competition law. FFP may also infringe other EU freedoms such as the free movement of workers and services.

This isn't the view of the European Commission. In a letter dated March 12, 2012, competition chief Joaquin Almunia wrote to UEFA President Michel Platini to say that he welcomed the break-even rule, stating that "this principle is also consistent with the aims and objectives of EU policy in the field of State Aid."

But the European Court of Justice might see it differently. This wouldn't be the first case in which sporting rules are struck down by the EU's highest court. In the 1995 Bosman ruling, the ECJ ruled against restrictions that prevented football players from moving to new clubs after their contracts expired. The Luxembourg-based court also prohibited domestic football leagues and UEFA from placing quotas on the number of non-EU players allowed on teams.

In its Meca-Medina judgment of 2006, the ECJ set an even more important precedent: that sports do not constitute a special case before EU law. The court must apply the same tests to sports as it does to any area of economic activity. I was involved in both of these cases, and I would note that in each instance the governing bodies concerned had initially received the full support of the European Commission.

The relevant test for sporting rules, therefore, is that if they distort competition or other EU freedoms, they must do so no more than is necessary in pursuit of legitimate objectives. That FFP distorts competition and EU freedoms is plain: EU case law has held that football players are the raw materials for football clubs to produce their final product. FFP is a joint agreement between clubs to limit their freedom to hire players by restraining their ability to spend on wages and transfers. This restraint of free competition may at the same time constitute a violation of the free movement of workers.

The next question is whether the objectives of FFP are legitimate and necessary. UEFA has put forth several objectives for FFP, the first of which is preserving the long-term financial stability of European football. This is laudable but unlikely to be considered such a fundamental objective that it justifies restricting competition.

A second objective, to preserve the integrity of the game in UEFA competition, might be looked upon better. But in fact, FFP is more likely to hinder than help in this regard.

European club football is characterized by numerous competitive imbalances: between clubs competing in UEFA competitions, between the domestic leagues of different countries, and between individual clubs in those leagues. Often the key determinant of a club's financial strength is the size of its domestic market and the commercial realities that apply within it—competing in the English Premier League will always be more lucrative than in its Scottish counterpart. As a result, the leading clubs of smaller countries such as Luxembourg or Ireland will always be at a disadvantage next to the leading clubs of bigger markets.

The break-even rule makes no allowance for the commercial disparities between individual national leagues, which means smaller clubs are hit harder, proportionately, than larger ones. Without the ability to invest in their longer-term success, smaller clubs will stay small. This is clearly anticompetitive.

Even if FFP were sufficiently legitimate and necessary to justify its distortions of EU principles, however, it would still have to clear a final hurdle: proportionality. UEFA would need to convince the EU's judges in Luxembourg that FFP is the least restrictive means of achieving its aims.

This seems unlikely. Existing UEFA regulations already require clubs to prove before the start of each season that they have no overdue payables to other clubs, to their employees or to tax authorities. With these safeguards already in place, it is hard to see why we need to stop clubs from incurring losses if and when they can safely fund them from the resources at their disposal.

If the ECJ were to declare FFP invalid, the ruling would hold for any FFP-based rules adopted at the national level. EU law also applies to restrictive practices that affect the territory of any single member state.

None of this implies, however, that competition law prevents UEFA from improving football's financial model. If UEFA is serious about tackling the issue, it should address the root causes of the competitive imbalances among teams. UEFA's territorial model could be redrawn, for instance, to allow clubs from major cities but small countries to become more competitive. More ambitious revenue-sharing between clubs and/or whole leagues, partly financed by a "luxury tax" on high-spending clubs, would also help.

But such solutions would run against the interests of the clubs with the most political clout. Some of Europe's biggest clubs are, unsurprisingly, the loudest supporters of rules that entrench their dominance. The time is right for a strong reminder from the EU's antitrust authorities that football, like any other multibillion-euro industry, must comply with the law.

Mr. Dupont is a European competition lawyer specializing in professional sports.

-- Tue Mar 26, 2013 2:08 pm --

Interestingly enough, Mr Dupont lead the team that forced through the Bosman ruling.

<a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Louis_Dupont" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Louis_Dupont</a>
A well balanced and authoritative piece. A little research on this guy's background showns he is a leading expert in the field of European Sports Law

He was part of the legal team that led the Bosman ruling (CJEU, 15 December 1995),[1] which forced FIFA and UEFA to end the transfer system and the nationality quota within the EU.

Jean-Louis Dupont is currently partner at Roca Junyent[7] law firm (Barcelona-Madrid), in charge of the sports law department.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.rocajunyent.com/index.php/mod.profesionales/mem.detalle/id.30/relcategoria.1045/relmenu.4/chk.f17c37f93881b50907df01e355da0941" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.rocajunyent.com/index.php/mo ... e355da0941</a>

I wonder if he's as well qualified to speak on this subject as the likes of Joe Lovejoy and James Lawton who don't appear to have arrived at the same conclusions....
I study Sports Law at Uni and my tutor a few weeks back told us about this 'Mr.Dupont'. Allegedly, he is widely regarded as being a bit of a prick, was once involved in the Bosman case and ever since then whenever there is a potential breach of EU Law whether it be the TFEU or the ECHR etc is wheeled out in front of the press and claims there is a breach, no matter what the circumstances.

Low and behold, look who stepped up a few weeks later! Very ironic from my point of view, not saying the guy is wrong, he's just not viewed upon that well I don't think and he loves claiming there's a breach of EU Law.
 
Re: Wall St Journal Article on FFP

Blue>Red said:
gordondaviesmoustache said:
88ster said:
An article from yesterday. please delete if already posted

<a class="postlink" href="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324077704578357992271428024.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 28024.html</a>

Normally, if a trade association introduced rules that raised barriers to entry and entrenched dominant players, antitrust regulators would be up in arms. Yet UEFA—the Union of European Football Associations—seems to enjoy the support, even the encouragement, of the European Commission on new rules that will do just that.

The Financial Fair Play (FFP) rules, which come into force in the 2013-14 season, prevent football clubs from spending more than what they earn each year. Clubs that do not comply with this "break-even" principle will face sanctions, including a potential ban on participation in UEFA competitions.

The new rules, which were first proposed in 2009, are supposedly meant to stop clubs' ballooning financial losses, which according to UEFA have threatened both individual, highly popular clubs and the future of European football as a whole.

All of this sounds reasonable at first. But as an agreement whereby industry participants jointly decide to limit investments, FFP likely constitutes collusion and hence a violation of EU competition law. FFP may also infringe other EU freedoms such as the free movement of workers and services.

This isn't the view of the European Commission. In a letter dated March 12, 2012, competition chief Joaquin Almunia wrote to UEFA President Michel Platini to say that he welcomed the break-even rule, stating that "this principle is also consistent with the aims and objectives of EU policy in the field of State Aid."

But the European Court of Justice might see it differently. This wouldn't be the first case in which sporting rules are struck down by the EU's highest court. In the 1995 Bosman ruling, the ECJ ruled against restrictions that prevented football players from moving to new clubs after their contracts expired. The Luxembourg-based court also prohibited domestic football leagues and UEFA from placing quotas on the number of non-EU players allowed on teams.

In its Meca-Medina judgment of 2006, the ECJ set an even more important precedent: that sports do not constitute a special case before EU law. The court must apply the same tests to sports as it does to any area of economic activity. I was involved in both of these cases, and I would note that in each instance the governing bodies concerned had initially received the full support of the European Commission.

The relevant test for sporting rules, therefore, is that if they distort competition or other EU freedoms, they must do so no more than is necessary in pursuit of legitimate objectives. That FFP distorts competition and EU freedoms is plain: EU case law has held that football players are the raw materials for football clubs to produce their final product. FFP is a joint agreement between clubs to limit their freedom to hire players by restraining their ability to spend on wages and transfers. This restraint of free competition may at the same time constitute a violation of the free movement of workers.

The next question is whether the objectives of FFP are legitimate and necessary. UEFA has put forth several objectives for FFP, the first of which is preserving the long-term financial stability of European football. This is laudable but unlikely to be considered such a fundamental objective that it justifies restricting competition.

A second objective, to preserve the integrity of the game in UEFA competition, might be looked upon better. But in fact, FFP is more likely to hinder than help in this regard.

European club football is characterized by numerous competitive imbalances: between clubs competing in UEFA competitions, between the domestic leagues of different countries, and between individual clubs in those leagues. Often the key determinant of a club's financial strength is the size of its domestic market and the commercial realities that apply within it—competing in the English Premier League will always be more lucrative than in its Scottish counterpart. As a result, the leading clubs of smaller countries such as Luxembourg or Ireland will always be at a disadvantage next to the leading clubs of bigger markets.

The break-even rule makes no allowance for the commercial disparities between individual national leagues, which means smaller clubs are hit harder, proportionately, than larger ones. Without the ability to invest in their longer-term success, smaller clubs will stay small. This is clearly anticompetitive.

Even if FFP were sufficiently legitimate and necessary to justify its distortions of EU principles, however, it would still have to clear a final hurdle: proportionality. UEFA would need to convince the EU's judges in Luxembourg that FFP is the least restrictive means of achieving its aims.

This seems unlikely. Existing UEFA regulations already require clubs to prove before the start of each season that they have no overdue payables to other clubs, to their employees or to tax authorities. With these safeguards already in place, it is hard to see why we need to stop clubs from incurring losses if and when they can safely fund them from the resources at their disposal.

If the ECJ were to declare FFP invalid, the ruling would hold for any FFP-based rules adopted at the national level. EU law also applies to restrictive practices that affect the territory of any single member state.

None of this implies, however, that competition law prevents UEFA from improving football's financial model. If UEFA is serious about tackling the issue, it should address the root causes of the competitive imbalances among teams. UEFA's territorial model could be redrawn, for instance, to allow clubs from major cities but small countries to become more competitive. More ambitious revenue-sharing between clubs and/or whole leagues, partly financed by a "luxury tax" on high-spending clubs, would also help.

But such solutions would run against the interests of the clubs with the most political clout. Some of Europe's biggest clubs are, unsurprisingly, the loudest supporters of rules that entrench their dominance. The time is right for a strong reminder from the EU's antitrust authorities that football, like any other multibillion-euro industry, must comply with the law.

Mr. Dupont is a European competition lawyer specializing in professional sports.

-- Tue Mar 26, 2013 2:08 pm --

Interestingly enough, Mr Dupont lead the team that forced through the Bosman ruling.

<a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Louis_Dupont" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Louis_Dupont</a>
A well balanced and authoritative piece. A little research on this guy's background showns he is a leading expert in the field of European Sports Law

He was part of the legal team that led the Bosman ruling (CJEU, 15 December 1995),[1] which forced FIFA and UEFA to end the transfer system and the nationality quota within the EU.

Jean-Louis Dupont is currently partner at Roca Junyent[7] law firm (Barcelona-Madrid), in charge of the sports law department.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.rocajunyent.com/index.php/mod.profesionales/mem.detalle/id.30/relcategoria.1045/relmenu.4/chk.f17c37f93881b50907df01e355da0941" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.rocajunyent.com/index.php/mo ... e355da0941</a>

I wonder if he's as well qualified to speak on this subject as the likes of Joe Lovejoy and James Lawton who don't appear to have arrived at the same conclusions....
I study Sports Law at Uni and my tutor a few weeks back told us about this 'Mr.Dupont'. Allegedly, he is widely regarded as being a bit of a prick, was once involved in the Bosman case and ever since then whenever there is a potential breach of EU Law whether it be the TFEU or the ECHR etc is wheeled out in front of the press and claims there is a breach, no matter what the circumstances.

Low and behold, look who stepped up a few weeks later! Very ironic from my point of view, not saying the guy is wrong, he's just not viewed upon that well I don't think and he loves claiming there's a breach of EU Law.

So what is your opinion of this article?

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/Tech/uefaorg/General/01/91/61/84/1916184_DOWNLOAD.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Dow ... WNLOAD.pdf</a>
 
Re: Wall St Journal Article on FFP

TonyBook said:
Blue>Red said:
gordondaviesmoustache said:
A well balanced and authoritative piece. A little research on this guy's background showns he is a leading expert in the field of European Sports Law





<a class="postlink" href="http://www.rocajunyent.com/index.php/mod.profesionales/mem.detalle/id.30/relcategoria.1045/relmenu.4/chk.f17c37f93881b50907df01e355da0941" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.rocajunyent.com/index.php/mo ... e355da0941</a>

I wonder if he's as well qualified to speak on this subject as the likes of Joe Lovejoy and James Lawton who don't appear to have arrived at the same conclusions....
I study Sports Law at Uni and my tutor a few weeks back told us about this 'Mr.Dupont'. Allegedly, he is widely regarded as being a bit of a prick, was once involved in the Bosman case and ever since then whenever there is a potential breach of EU Law whether it be the TFEU or the ECHR etc is wheeled out in front of the press and claims there is a breach, no matter what the circumstances.

Low and behold, look who stepped up a few weeks later! Very ironic from my point of view, not saying the guy is wrong, he's just not viewed upon that well I don't think and he loves claiming there's a breach of EU Law.

So what is your opinion of this article?

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/Tech/uefaorg/General/01/91/61/84/1916184_DOWNLOAD.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Dow ... WNLOAD.pdf</a>
Opinion in what way? It's a bit heavy for this time of night, a lot of statistics so not sure what you want me to comment on. I'm a bit biased because I'm in agreement with everyone on here, it restricts competition, no doubt about that. The whole free movement of persons stuff is a bit weak and hopeless, if this is a restriction on free movement then isn't a transfer window? There's discrimination issues behind that which I won't bother with, but could be a shot in the dark.

Look, you won't have to wait too long to know whether FFP will be shot down or not. Malaga are taking a case to the CAS (Court of Arbitration for Sport) challenging their exclusion from Europe next season, probably on all the grounds mentioned in this thread and previous ones.

I honestly don't think Malaga will succeed in the CAS, and that decision will be final, there is no way to appeal a CAS decision as such. If someone takes it to the European Courts or wherever it'll all boil down to proportionality, that's what Dupont is on about in the article, is the FFP system restricting the rights of people, and if so, is it proportionate to their overall aim, so ensuring financially stable clubs throughout Europe blah blah blah.

Another thing to think about is the courts really don't like getting involved in this stuff, as much as Bosman and Meca-Medina have said sport is treated as if it were a normal situation, in reality it just isn't. I mean, look at the whereabouts system in doping, breaches all kinds of privacy laws, working time directives etc, yet still remains almost because it's a sporting matter and is separate to say, you and I living under the same restrictions, although that system has never been DIRECTLY challenged.

It's going to be interesting and I'm rambling on now, so for short: do I think it breaches EU Law? Yes. Will it be ruled as a breach? Not so sure....
 
Re: Wall St Journal Article on FFP

From the UEFA website: "They include an obligation for clubs, over a period of time, to balance their books or break even. Under the concept, clubs cannot repeatedly spend more than their generated revenues, and clubs will be obliged to meet all their transfer and employee payment commitments at all times. Higher-risk clubs that fail certain indicators will also be required to provide budgets detailing their strategic plans."

I've read the rules, and they are summarized accurately. I don't see why this is a bad thing.

As for business practices, the analogy to Microsoft is not accurate. Microsoft started very slowly and only grew when they were sure that they would be able to sustain growth. That's what any successful entrepreneur will tell you -- don't get ahead of yourself. You have to have sound fundamentals for growth. If you try to grow too fast, you get in too deep and unless everything goes perfectly you will fail. Yes, that's the free market, but this is a sport and not a business. When a club fails, the supporters lose something that you can't just go out and buy more of on the free market. If City goes under, are we all just going to become Utd or Arsenal fans? I would actually support a 49 percent rule like in Germany. The free market be damned.

Continuing the analogy to a traditional business, almost all of them have to show to someone, either a bank or an investor, that their business plan will have some chance of success. A wealthy owner could certainly fund their own business indefinitely, but if they were to stop, their business will either fail or other investors will have to be sure that the business is sustainable. You see small business fail all the time because they are funded only by their owners as a pet project and the owner is free to run the business as poorly as he wants. This makes sense when he is the only truly interested party, but with football clubs, the supporters are also interested parties. Their interests should be taken into account, and just letting the free market take its course isn't good for anyone.
 
Re: Wall St Journal Article on FFP

kenzie115 said:
Hopefully this just delays FFP being implemented for a few years, thus allowing us to make the final steps in improving our squad, without restriction, before raising the drawbridge to the castle which is the Champions League.

The drawbridge has already been lifted. We are in, just. The likes of Newcastle, Villa, Everton, and even Liverpool, have all missed the boat! Poor old Nottingham Forest who won the "European Cup" back in 1979 and 1980, will probably never ever repeat that feat in the future due to FFP. What a shame, FFP = the death of competition!!
 

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