Finding the right balance in midfield

[citymad]

I've banging on about for a full season and I'll bang on about it again.

Ya Ya gives us a big problem. He's one of the wierdest players I've ever come across. He's fast but slow, athletic but unfit, strong but not in the tackle.

He's not the answer in the holding role. He can't help but look for the forward run. De Jong and Barry win the ball, look up and release. That is perfect for the likes of silva, Nasri and Aguero. Ya Ya doesn't, he takes time on the ball or gets himself forward looking for a return pass. It doesn't work against teams with a pressing midfield, it leaves the back four exposed. That's what we saw at the weekend.

Has to be Barry and De Jong for me behind the "fab four" attackers.

I suspect Yaya might play back in the "hole", or as a third central midfielder, in some of the biggest games to shore us up.

Barry and De Jong holding in every game for me. I woundn't play Ya ya every week. Not Milner, either. Not good enough on the ball.

Excellent post

 

[Ntini77]

I'm a tad worried about Nasri after watching the last two games. He seems to be stuck to left, unlike at Spurs where he, Aguero & Silva were all roaming and reaping havoc.

 

[King Geedorah]

Dave you talk about the fab four like they are a definite fixture. I've had a think and can't get past them being the elephant in the room. If they can consistently get to 3 goals then it's fine to play them but when they don't we're very vulnerable to days like Sunday.

Thinking back to the Hughes days we often played a much less talented four with Bellamy, Ade and Tevez plus SWP (Hazy on this) and conceded in a similar way. Even then De Jong and Barry weren't enough to steady the ship then and I don't think they will now. Without meaning to be harsh they are two of our least talented players and we would essentially be asking for them to cover two positions each.

I would be far more comfortable with the defence shored up and say 3 of the four expected to provide the goals to win the game.

 

[kippaxmanreturns]

Posted this on another thread but seems it should have been here.

I was at yesterdays game and what stood out for me was the weakness in our defensive midfielders for me Yaya Toure is a huge threat going forward but when a counter attack is on you might as well ask Moonchester to cover him. If anybody should have been substituted yesterday for me it was him. Hopefully de jong wont be too far from a return.

Though I am sure plenty will disagree it is after all only my view.

 

[robbieh]

While some may delight in Silva's touch and vision he would not get in the Barca starting eleven. No crime you might say and I agree. However he is not the best player in the world as some have said.

In fact controversial as it seems he is not the best player at the club. That is Kun. He would get into Barca, Madrid or any other team in world football.

Bashing Yaya seems to be the order of the day. How short are people's memories. He is a class player and for me is an automatic starter ahead of Nasri.

Barry, NDJ and Yaya
Aguero Silva and Dzeko/Nasri

 

[Gelsons Dad]

I don't like the 4 strikers plus attacking fullbacks. I feel we become way too overcommitted and without an anchor man like NDJ the two CBs are overstretched. I still don't fancy Lescott either attacking or defending, his positioning and lack of passing ability puts Komps under too much pressure.

I also think we've got a bit carried away with Edin too.

If we're going to continue with the "fab four" then I would prefer the fullbacks to stay home more and for Gaz Baz or NDJ when he's fit to sit deep too. It would make more room for the touch players to use and would protect us against the counter.

Ideally I would prefer to play the old narrow diamond with the fullbacks bombing but that would need Nasri to play from deeper.


MR-------VK-----JL-----GC
-----------GB(NDJ)------
-------YT---------SN----
-------------DS---------
-------ED--------SA-----

Effectively using Yaya and Nasri as box to box players.

Whatever Bobby does I hope he puts our defense back in working order asap because we can't afford to waste 20 chances a game if we start shipping goals.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

I'd still like to have a proper look at NDJ and Yaya in front of the back 4; seems a bit ridiculous, to me, to think that anyone would rate Barry above Yaya - I know they have different qualities but I certainly can't see Bob benching Yaya whilst keeping Barry in the side.

If you remember pre-season it looked like Barry was already being relegated to acting as cover as Milner was ahead of him.

It's not about rating Yaya above Barry, Rammy. That's the thing. If I had to put my mortgage on either of them to score a 1 on 1 or thread a pass it would be Ya Ya. It's about the pairing. I was starting to think that Milner might be edging past Barry becuase of Barry's lack of pace but then I've seen the way we play one touch pass and move this year and Milner just isn't a good enough footballer.

I just don't think Ya Ya is a defensive midfielder because of the way he looks to exploit space, and also because of the way he goes into the tackle. He might be better alongside Nige, and I do believe that will be the manager's first choice pairing. But I wou'dn't pick it. I'd play Ya Ya in last season's role in the games where we expect to come under some pressure. I'd leave him out of games like Sunday's where our attackers can tear a defence to shreds. I do however appreciate the manager had limited options in this area at the weekend, and I would have picked the same team he did man for man.

I always get shit for this but I've always believed it: Ya Ya often gives you as many problems as he solves. Sunday was a case in point.

 

[King Geedorah]

Part of the issue with Yaya is he's the absolute opposite of Silva. Silva seems to just love playing football, regardless of the score he wants to recieve the ball and create chances. Conversely Yaya just seems to want to win games for the least possible effort, if we're 3-0 up he just wants the game over and done with. Consequently Yaya doesn't take a major role in demolition jobs and doesn't get the plaudits for them. So automatically he is at somewhat of a disadvantage when it comes to general opinion, and the more we dominate teams the less he's going to do.

But the secondary problem is he just can not work in tight spaces. Largely because he's so fucking huge they are even more tight for him, all he can really do is spread the play wide and take long shots. Dave I think this is your problem with him right?

Then, crucially for me, there's the times we need a goal and there's ample space for him to attack. That's when he comes into his own because he can drive with the ball and his long range accuracy can lead to devastating counter attacks.

Oh and most importantly of all, he has balls. When our other players were spurning chance after chance at Wembley, Yaya won us the game. And I think he feels a sense of responsibility in that respect, his past year has been one of the whole team failing to score when we need to most. Possibly why he takes long shots in the dying moments? A lack of trust.


Anyway to bring it all together, to me he's the most horses for courses player we have. There's simply no point playing him against a side who'll defend backs to the wall [Unless we try him as a ball playing centre back; but that's another debate for another day] because generally he'll run straight into the wall and lose the ball. For me he needs to play in all the big games and away from home, this is where he's at home and his courage and composure come into play. Games like Wigan and Swansea don't come into the equation, anyone could do what he does and just sit and pass.

Edit: I don't even consider him a defensive player, because he isn't. Honestly as a pure defensive mid he's nothing - but he can play that deep lying play maker role well.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

Part of the issue with Yaya is he's the absolute opposite of Silva. Silva seems to just love playing football, regardless of the score he wants to recieve the ball and create chances. Conversely Yaya just seems to want to win games for the least possible effort, if we're 3-0 up he just wants the game over and done with. Consequently Yaya doesn't take a major role in demolition jobs and doesn't get the plaudits for them. So automatically he is at somewhat of a disadvantage when it comes to general opinion, and the more we dominate teams the less he's going to do.

But the secondary problem is he just can not work in tight spaces. Largely because he's so fucking huge they are even more tight for him, all he can really do is spread the play wide and take long shots. Dave I think this is your problem with him right?

Then, crucially for me, there's the times we need a goal and there's ample space for him to attack. That's when he comes into his own because he can drive with the ball and his long range accuracy can lead to devastating counter attacks.

Oh and most importantly of all, he has balls. When our other players were spurning chance after chance at Wembley, Yaya won us the game. And I think he feels a sense of responsibility in that respect, his past year has been one of the whole team failing to score when we need to most. Possibly why he takes long shots in the dying moments? A lack of trust.


Anyway to bring it all together, to me he's the most horses for courses player we have. There's simply no point playing him against a side who'll defend backs to the wall [Unless we try him as a ball playing centre back; but that's another debate for another day] because generally he'll run straight into the wall and lose the ball. For me he needs to play in all the big games and away from home, this is where he's at home and his courage and composure come into play. Games like Wigan and Swansea don't come into the equation, anyone could do what he does and just sit and pass.

Edit: I don't even consider him a defensive player, because he isn't. Honestly as a pure defensive mid he's nothing - but he can play that deep lying play maker role well.

That's a very good post indeed and a good summary of my feelings. I'm glad someone can see what I'm getting at. The actual games where he can excel in he really does excel - like United at WEmbley where they are coming at us and it's a big pitch. But the majority of games he offers little.

There's no doubt he has lots of ability, but in some ways he's a luxury player, much as I hate that term.

 

[Tevez City]

I will go for Yaya & Nasri in the middle.