FSA AGM - reportedly a fans' motion supportive of APT rules proposed

We (1894) intended to go but none of the main leadership team could go through family commitments. It was a 10am start at Wembley.

The main other motion we were expecting had been around football governance. The change of government meant seeing if it was going to be in the kings speech, it was but then some groups notably Arsenal supporters trust and spirit of shankly have made extra amendments specifically calling out City challenging APT rules.

There was no mention of this, we believe it’s a very last minute thing, an AGM which is supposedly planned well in advance yet Paul Colborne from Hammers Utd got shown the motion on friday the day before. It wasn’t on the agenda fil the day before. He would probably have backed it anyway but he admits he probably didn’t look into it too much.

The main issue here is sneaking it through the back door to get a unanimous verdict. Not enough discussion beforehand. Our ticket motion was discussed with 13 other groups, 42 people on a call and others were allowed to make amendments and tweaks to help it past. We were not afforded the same courtesy or advance warming on this motion which mentions our club.

So piss poor and FSA is funded by the PL so we will seek to speak with their new chairman, clearly the outgoing Malcolm Clarke has added the motion as a goodbye favour to his committee, but there is an ongoing legal challenge to APT rules and what if City win? Our club IS allowed to challenge things.
 
Mad Eyed Screamer said:
Because if I disagreed with him, he would reply arguing against that point rather than answering specifically.about Liverpool FC.
I want him.to only be able.to answer the question about whether he or SOS have ever called Liverpool out and I used his comments about City and our fan base to flush the fucker out.
I'm saying to him "you are so right. So now, do you apply the same judgement and values to this case?" And if not, why not?
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He’s too thick to read that far down
 
M18CTID said:
Just to clarify that 1894 - and, I’m guessing, the OSC - knew about the AGM (I’d actually describe it more as an annual conference rather than an AGM). 1894 normally have someone in attendance - as do the OSC - but our issue this year is that we couldn’t get anyone down there in person. We did have a couple of guys following the motion remotely about co-ordinated action on ticket prices which 1894 have been heavily involved in. Whether the motion about APTs was properly communicated in advance, I’m not sure as I’ve been out of the loop a bit over the past couple of months due to family issues. The impression I get is that it’s kind of been shoved through the back door and as you can see, both 1894 and the OSC aren’t happy about that.

I still think this has got Ian Byrne’s fingerprints all over it and it’s been worded in a way to try and sucker other fan groups in to vote in favour of the motion.

Can I just say thanks to @Luddite_Blue for posting the details on here.
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No worries M18CTID - appreciate you keeping us informed and fighting the good fight.
 
M18CTID said:
Just to clarify that 1894 - and, I’m guessing, the OSC - knew about the AGM (I’d actually describe it more as an annual conference rather than an AGM). 1894 normally have someone in attendance - as do the OSC - but our issue this year is that we couldn’t get anyone down there in person. We did have a couple of guys following the motion remotely about co-ordinated action on ticket prices which 1894 have been heavily involved in. Whether the motion about APTs was properly communicated in advance, I’m not sure as I’ve been out of the loop a bit over the past couple of months due to family issues. The impression I get is that it’s kind of been shoved through the back door and as you can see, both 1894 and the OSC aren’t happy about that.

I still think this has got Ian Byrne’s fingerprints all over it and it’s been worded in a way to try and sucker other fan groups in to vote in favour of the motion.

Can I just say thanks to @Luddite_Blue for posting the details on here.
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From when i was on the National Council of the FSF (2002 to 2011) we had a conference / AGM at Crewe one year.
All AGM's are well advertised to members via website / emails / newsletter (which we had at the time) and regional meetings, with motions given in advance to members. However motions could be submitted right up until the start of the meeting.

At Crewe, a member of the National Council dropped a motion on the morning of the meeting. A very long motion with something like 6 different things to vote on. I agreed with some, not the others (he was the diversity officer and one of his sub motions was he suggested he should be able to attend any diversity conference / meeting taking place anywhere in the world and the FSF would pay for it!)
We took up half of the meeting discussing this motion, or rather not the actual issue but the motion itself, the wording, with some members calling for the wording to be amended etc etc.
In the end someone put forward a motion that this motion be ended and left for the National Council to discuss at a later date -which received a unanimous YES!

After that, the National Council took the decision to set a deadline prior to the conference date when motions should be submitted by (to prevent the issue at Crewe from happening again.) This was carried, however there was a provision for a motion to still be submitted after the deadline but only if an issue arose affecting fans that occurred after the deadline date and before the day of the conference. I'm just wondering if this motion fell under that category which is why it wasn't brought up in pre conference communications?

Edit - Just read the post from @wearethesouthstand at the top of this page and yes clearly.it was a last minute job.
 
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wearethesouthstand said:
We (1894) intended to go but none of the main leadership team could go through family commitments. It was a 10am start at Wembley.

The main other motion we were expecting had been around football governance. The change of government meant seeing if it was going to be in the kings speech, it was but then some groups notably Arsenal supporters trust and spirit of shankly have made extra amendments specifically calling out City challenging APT rules.

There was no mention of this, we believe it’s a very last minute thing, an AGM which is supposedly planned well in advance yet Paul Colborne from Hammers Utd got shown the motion on friday the day before. It wasn’t on the agenda fil the day before. He would probably have backed it anyway but he admits he probably didn’t look into it too much.

The main issue here is sneaking it through the back door to get a unanimous verdict. Not enough discussion beforehand. Our ticket motion was discussed with 13 other groups, 42 people on a call and others were allowed to make amendments and tweaks to help it past. We were not afforded the same courtesy or advance warming on this motion which mentions our club.

So piss poor and FSA is funded by the PL so we will seek to speak with their new chairman, clearly the outgoing Malcolm Clarke has added the motion as a goodbye favour to his committee, but there is an ongoing legal challenge to APT rules and what if City win? Our club IS allowed to challenge things.
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See my post above.
I'd contact the FSA and ask when was the motion (or the amended motion) presented to the FSA?

Then ask if this was before or after the deadline for motions (assuming in the last few years the deadline is still in place) and if it was submitted after the deadline - but was an issue already occurring before the deadline then state it should not have been presented on the day.

I would then call for the National Council to make the motion null and void if it was incorrecrly submitted out of time and without prior notice given to members to consult and prepare for the motion appropriately.
 
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Mad Eyed Screamer said:
See my post above.
I'd contact the FSA and ask when was the motion (or the amended motion) presented to the FSA?

Then ask if this was before or after the deadline for motions (assuming in the last few years the deadline is still in place) and if it was submitted after the deadline - but was an issue already occurring before the deadline then state it should not have been presented on the day.

I would then call for the National Council to make the motion null and void if it was incorrecrly submitted out of time and without prior notice given to members to consult and prepare for the motion appropriately.
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Clear & organised!!
 
wearethesouthstand said:
We (1894) intended to go but none of the main leadership team could go through family commitments. It was a 10am start at Wembley.

The main other motion we were expecting had been around football governance. The change of government meant seeing if it was going to be in the kings speech, it was but then some groups notably Arsenal supporters trust and spirit of shankly have made extra amendments specifically calling out City challenging APT rules.

There was no mention of this, we believe it’s a very last minute thing, an AGM which is supposedly planned well in advance yet Paul Colborne from Hammers Utd got shown the motion on friday the day before. It wasn’t on the agenda fil the day before. He would probably have backed it anyway but he admits he probably didn’t look into it too much.

The main issue here is sneaking it through the back door to get a unanimous verdict. Not enough discussion beforehand. Our ticket motion was discussed with 13 other groups, 42 people on a call and others were allowed to make amendments and tweaks to help it past. We were not afforded the same courtesy or advance warming on this motion which mentions our club.

So piss poor and FSA is funded by the PL so we will seek to speak with their new chairman, clearly the outgoing Malcolm Clarke has added the motion as a goodbye favour to his committee, but there is an ongoing legal challenge to APT rules and what if City win? Our club IS allowed to challenge things.
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Didn’t know the FSA was funded by the PL. A good reason not to trust the FSA.
 
bobbyowenquiff said:
Didn’t know the FSA was funded by the PL. A good reason not to trust the FSA.
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When I was on the National Council, the FSF (as it was then) received funding from the PL (who gave it very reluctantly) as well as the PFA too. The PL funded it as they have to support various causes as part of their commitment to grass roots football and other aspects of the game. I recall after one meeting with the PL, which was quite heated, the PL ''threatened'' to pull the plug on the funding if the FSF continued to be a thorn in their side.....
They also received money from the Home Office for organising the Free Lions / and the Welsh equivalent free fanzines at England & Wales away games and associated costs of sending folk out there before hand to suss the place out etc.
 
Mad Eyed Screamer said:
When I was on the National Council, the FSF (as it was then) received funding from the PL (who gave it very reluctantly) as well as the PFA too. The PL funded it as they have to support various causes as part of their commitment to grass roots football and other aspects of the game. I recall after one meeting with the PL, which was quite heated, the PL ''threatened'' to pull the plug on the funding if the FSF continued to be a thorn in their side.....
They also received money from the Home Office for organising the Free Lions / and the Welsh equivalent free fanzines at England & Wales away games and associated costs of sending folk out there before hand to suss the place out etc.
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Interesting to know this background. I was initially opposed to an independent regulator but the more I learn the more I realise how corrupted the top of football is. The fans need a true independent voice but I don’t know how it would be funded
 
bobbyowenquiff said:
Interesting to know this background. I was initially opposed to an independent regulator but the more I learn the more I realise how corrupted the top of football is. The fans need a true independent voice but I don’t know how it would be funded
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A percentage of gate receipts set by the IR. Just cut the PL out of it.
 
bobbyowenquiff said:
Interesting to know this background. I was initially opposed to an independent regulator but the more I learn the more I realise how corrupted the top of football is. The fans need a true independent voice but I don’t know how it would be funded
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Easy. The first game of this season, 1 quid is added to every season ticket / ticket / pay on the gate of every game played in England & Wales throughout the pyramid system. That's enough to keep it going for 5 years +. When the money runs out, do it again the next first game of the season.
 
The average football fan is a fucking idiot when it comes to anything that a pundit isn't spouting. I wouldn't trust a group of them from numerous clubs to correctly, understand my lads maths homework let alone a complex legal and technical case. I'm sure you can all think about what the average fan in the pub is like.

This is pretentious I know, but the average City fan is smarter and better informed about how the business of football works because we've had to seek out actually qualified people such as various accountants and lawyers and the rest to explain things for almost two decades due to the unbelievable ignorance of the modern football press and pundit class. Fuck these guys
 
Damocles said:
The average football fan is a fucking idiot when it comes to anything that a pundit isn't spouting. I wouldn't trust a group of them from numerous clubs to correctly, understand my lads maths homework let alone a complex legal and technical case. I'm sure you can all think about what the average fan in the pub is like.

This is pretentious I know, but the average City fan is smarter and better informed about how the business of football works because we've had to seek out actually qualified people such as various accountants and lawyers and the rest to explain things for almost two decades due to the unbelievable ignorance of the modern football press and pundit class. Fuck these guys
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When I was on the board (am I beginning to sound like Uncle Albert?) it was made up of leading fans of clubs like AFC Wimbledon, Stockport, Northampton and other clubs being run by Supporters Trusts, as well as individuals from groups like IMUSA (laugh as we may about the Glazer's, but they were politically clued up and took on and beat Murdoch) as well as fans from other clubs, politicised through their club being run to the ground by rotten owners. You did get the odd type of fan who just likes to be on a committee (and to be honest, they have a great use at ensuring protocol and standing orders are carried out to the letter) but over time and with yearly elections, more radical thinking fans came on board.
I left in 2011 so can't speak of today's set up.
 
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These sort of things evolve and move on. The make up of fans also changes. From the days of 99.9% male fans through the violent clashes to female fans pushing their way in ;-) to today’s almost 50 - 50 gender fan participation. So how can one or two representatives from every club fully represent everyone? That is said in a friendly fashion by the way.
Life shows us in many, many ways that everyone has a different opinion. (See BM for proof *lol*)
So it will never be perfect but I hold my hands up to the people who take the plunge and have the courage to speak for the rest of us.
One day, hopefully, we will get as much as possible of what we want/need. :-) :-)


JMHO Which I hope makes sense.
 
Eccles Blue said:
These sort of things evolve and move on. The make up of fans also changes. From the days of 99.9% male fans through the violent clashes to female fans pushing their way in ;-) to today’s almost 50 - 50 gender fan participation. So how can one or two representatives from every club fully represent everyone? That is said in a friendly fashion by the way.
Life shows us in many, many ways that everyone has a different opinion. (See BM for proof *lol*)
So it will never be perfect but I hold my hands up to the people who take the plunge and have the courage to speak for the rest of us.
One day, hopefully, we will get as much as possible of what we want/need. :-) :-)


JMHO Which I hope makes sense.
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If you said this at the Conference today you'd be pulled up for failing to include non binary fans.....
 
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