Did you miss the summer where we spent 3 months trying to sign Cucurella for 60m?
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Full backs / Wing Backs
- Thread starter ancoats
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Did you miss the summer where we spent 3 months trying to sign Cucurella for 60m?
Sorry but his mistake against Liverpool has nothing to do with being overplayed. That was basic defending and he messed up. I think for the pen on Saturday Ake certainly should have been in a better position to deal with it.
I like Cancelo but the defensive side of his game is up for debate. I personally feel we need to invest in the full back area. I’d also like to see Cancelo given a proper run at right back.
It's about the football brain and not being a natural left back that his weakness, other teams have found us out down the left and better managers/teams/players will work on it, also, It's when teams park the bus and 10 men behind the ball you need a left-footed player to make a cross first time and not cut back, so your forwards can make the run,
a proper world-class left back should be signed if available ? Stop messing around with covers
blueparrot
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Did you miss where I said we may well buy a left back, but don't expect his game to not to be changed, same as Walkers has.Did you miss the summer where we spent 3 months trying to sign Cucurella for 60m?
Did you miss where I said we may well buy a left back, but don't expect his game to not to be changed, same as Walkers has.
Cancelo is a world-class player and like everybody else makes mistakes, that's not the point or problem
it's the need for a left-footed fullback that balances the team, so the forwards can read and time their runs,
if somehow we find a world-class left back, then Cancelo could play in the midfield or rotate Walker at right back.
Did you miss where I said we may well buy a left back, but don't expect his game to not to be changed, same as Walkers has.
tbh I didn't bother reading past this bit because it was such obvious fiction I knew the rest of the post would be too.
How many chances has Pep had to buy a traditional left back though and not done
He spent £52m on Mendy, and spent all summer chasing Cucurella, made sure we bought an attacking left footed LB in Gomez when Cucurella fell through, and is trying to bring through Wilson-Esbrand.
The man is desperate for a natural LB.
blueparrot
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I don't think we see Cancelo as anything other than a fullback capoable of playing either side, we will buy a full back at some point I just don't think we'll play with a fullback that stays wide and overlaps. Walker used to be that sort but apart from the odd overlpping charge is more likely to be found tucked into midfield than overlapping, same as Cancelo on the left. I think it's notable that when Pep praised Rico Lewis he mainly praised his intelligence and the ability to understand his instructions first time, maybe why he seems to have jumped ahead of JWE.Cancelo is a world-class player and like everybody else makes mistakes, that's not the point or problem
it's the need for a left-footed fullback that balances the team, so the forwards can read and time their runs,
if somehow we find a world-class left back, then Cancelo could play in the midfield or rotate Walker at right back.
As I say we could well buy a full back but unless we think they have an game thats adaptable a full back that looks good in another team in a traditional role won't necesarrily be a good fit for what we want from a full back.
Cancelo is a world-class player and like everybody else makes mistakes, that's not the point or problem
it's the need for a left-footed fullback that balances the team, so the forwards can read and time their runs,
if somehow we find a world-class left back, then Cancelo could play in the midfield or rotate Walker at right back.
We've scored 137 league goals since the start of last season, and we've conceded fewer chances than any team in England (or Europe?).
We are doing greatly with Cancelo at LB, both offensively and defensively.
A bigger problem now is Walker who is getting injury prone. If a top RB is available, we may well try to sign him. Had Walker been available in both games vs Real, or at least for 90 minutes in Madrid, we'd have been in the CL final for a second season in a row.
We've scored 137 league goals since the start of last season, and we've conceded fewer chances than any team in England (or Europe?).
We are doing greatly with Cancelo at LB, both offensively and defensively.
A bigger problem now is Walker who is getting injury prone. If a top RB is available, we may well try to sign him. Had Walker been available in both games vs Real, or at least for 90 minutes in Madrid, we'd have been in the CL final for a second season in a row.
I just think in the bigger games and in Champions League big games you can not have a weakness of a left fullback without a left foot because of the talent they have
aguero93:20
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Aaron Hickey at Brentford is the one I'd be looking at, homegrown as well.Theres a few full backs in serie a who look very good. one in particular would be Di Marco at Inter hopefully City are looking at him hes quality
I just think in the bigger games and in Champions League big games you can not have a weakness of a left fullback without a left foot because of the talent they have
Well, we won the PL in spite of the injury crisis in May, and we were very close to reaching the CL in spite of playing over 100 minutes in the semi vs Real without a proper fullback. Our losses in the FA Cup and the CL had nothing to do with using Cancelo at LB. And our loss in the CL final had nothing to do with Cancelo.
Cancelo isn't a problem. Walker has been a bigger problem than Cancelo, for, his brain fart vs Leipzig aside, he missed many games in April/May last season and October and November this season. We rely on his fitness, but he doesn't seem to be reliable any more.
I love that we have Ake, Akanji, Dias, Stones and Laporte. Having 5 top quality CBs is a huge security blanket. the fact that many of them can play wide is also a huge bonus.
And we have great young players who can play fullback.
If we have a free place in the squad I'd hope it'd be an extra attacking player that we'd be after. There's something not right up front and if we fix that our defense is under a lot less pressure.
And we have great young players who can play fullback.
If we have a free place in the squad I'd hope it'd be an extra attacking player that we'd be after. There's something not right up front and if we fix that our defense is under a lot less pressure.
So that there's no misunderstanding I am a fan of Cancelo and I'm one who believes him to be better on his natural right side where he can play wide, over lap and get to the end line. He's done some amazing things offensively playing on the left which for me is a testament to his skill level, but it's not the same deal.Pep isn't exactly at fault, for we don't have enough good options at FB when Walker is injured. That is, Pep has been forced to play Cancelo a lot more than he himself prefers, partly because Cancelo has been too important to be rested, given the squad options (Ake and Gomez on the left, Stones and Akanji on the right). No City player has started so many games over the last 15 months, including Ederson. It is quite logical to suppose that, no matter how fit Cancelo is (and it's a big plus for our team that he is among the fittest players in the league), his form is bound to suffer at some point. He plays in all thirds of the pitch and isn't rotated, whereas players who play mostly in defence or mostly in attack are being rested every 3-4 games (if they are available in the first place).
I totally understand that Pep wants him pressing in defense, closing off passing lanes, regaining possession as quickly as possible and all sorts of tactical stuff beyond what a traditional FB would be asked to do, but there comes a time where you're in your back third and need to simply defend someone and that's a weakness in his game. It may not come up often but when it does it seems to be costly. Watch the entire sequence from Real's first goal in the second leg and its glaring.
That said I would sub him at the 70th any time we have the lead, which is a great majority of the time, with Ake or Laporte whoever hasn't started. It would afford him some rest in a different way and allow us to be a little tighter in seeing games out. JMO.
DiMarco would be great in our system. Technical, with speed, aggressive offensively, very good crosser of the ball. Not the best defender himself, but a natural left footer.Theres a few full backs in serie a who look very good. one in particular would be Di Marco at Inter hopefully City are looking at him hes quality
Also devastating on free kicks and an eye for goal.
So that there's no misunderstanding I am a fan of Cancelo and I'm one who believes him to be better on his natural right side where he can play wide, over lap and get to the end line. He's done some amazing things offensively playing on the left which for me is a testament to his skill level, but it's not the same deal.
I totally understand that Pep wants him pressing in defense, closing off passing lanes, regaining possession as quickly as possible and all sorts of tactical stuff beyond what a traditional FB would be asked to do, but there comes a time where you're in your back third and need to simply defend someone and that's a weakness in his game. It may not come up often but when it does it seems to be costly. Watch the entire sequence from Real's first goal in the second leg and its glaring.
That said I would sub him at the 70th any time we have the lead, which is a great majority of the time, with Ake or Laporte whoever hasn't started. It would afford him some rest in a different way and allow us to be a little tighter in seeing games out. JMO.
I agree with your points. Note two interesting things, though. The mistake against Real came after he switched from LB to RB (Walker was subbed off). And the recent mistake vs Liverpool came after he started on the right side (we played with 3 defenders: Akanji, Diad and Ake). He can play both at LB and RB, and that's good for the team, but he's the only high-profile FB right now who is being asked to play on both sides. If Walker or Robertson switch sides (from RB to LB, and vice versa) and make mistakes, these will be excusable to some extent, for they are not supposed to be at their best on the other side of the pitch. Cancelo has weakneses and should work on them, no doubt about that. The mistake vs Salah was bad and annoying. But Pep changes his roles in games and between games, and this may confuse him a bit and interfere with his decision-making, even if Cancelo pretends that everything's OK. His versatility is a great quality, but he has his limits. Generally, he's been better at LB, probably because he has played there a lot more over the last 15 months than at RB.
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Yes, I meant I like him better offensively from the right. Defensively it's about the same from either side. It's no crime to be a so-so defender in your own third especially being that we're rarely defending there but late in games with a lead Pep should consider a more defensive option IMO. Marcelo and Dani Alves were big players on great teams and neither could really defend in their own third so there's plenty of precedent.I agree with your points. Note two interesting things, though. The mistake against Real came after he switched from LB to RB (Walker was subbed off). And the recent mistake vs Liverpool came after he started on the right side (we played with 3 defenders: Akanji, Diad and Ake). He can play both at LB and RB, and that's good for the team, but he's the only high-profile FB right now who is being asked to play on both sides. If Walker or Robertson switch sides (from RB to LB, and vice versa) and make mistakes, these will be excusable to some extent, for they are not supposed to be at their best on the other side of the pitch. Cancelo has weakneses and should work on them, no doubt about that. The mistake vs Salah was bad and annoying. But Pep changes his roles in games and between games, and this may confuse him a bit and interfere with his decision-making, even if Cancelo pretends that everything's OK. His versatility is a great quality, but he has his limits. Generally, he's been better at LB, probably because he has played there a lot more over the last 15 months than at RB.
Yes, I meant I like him better offensively from the right. Defensively it's about the same from either side. It's no crime to be a so-so defender in your own third especially being that we're rarely defending there but late in games with a lead Pep should consider a more defensive option IMO. Marcelo and Dani Alves were big players on great teams and neither could really defend in their own third so there's plenty of precedent.
It makes sense to replace Cancelo late in games if the more defensive option doesn't make our build up play worse. For we can't control games by defending deep. Pep himself said we are not good at it. Imo, our problem in Madrid was that we lost control of the game in the final minutes and let Madrid attack us from all sides. It wasn't only about individual mistakes (Cancelo, Dias, Ferna, etc.). We are 'more defensive' in our play when we keep the ball for the sake of keeping it, i.e. without attempting risky passes. And Cancelo is better at this than most of our defenders.
My point was that it is often taken for granted that changing Cancelo's position from LB to RB isn't a big deal and shouldn't affect his performance. But it's far from easy to switch roles within games or from one game to another game. Imagine Walker at LB or Robertson at RB in big games. In our last game at Anfield, Liverpool had two fit LBs and hadn't a fit RB. Klopp's solution wasn't to put Robertson at RB and Tsimikas at LB. He went with Milner at RB who is poor and slow these days. You need different systems of habits and reactions on the right and on the left. Given that Cancelo is involved in all phases of the game, to ask him to do it on both sides within the same game or even from one game to another game may be overwhelming for the most flexible player. Lahm could probably do it, his IQ was top. Cancelo has the talent, but Pep relies on his versatility a bit too much at times (because he is forced to rely on it sometimes).
Having him flip from side to side from game to game or even within games is a big ask, I agree.It makes sense to replace Cancelo late in games if the more defensive option doesn't make our build up play worse. For we can't control games by defending deep. Pep himself said we are not good at it. Imo, our problem in Madrid was that we lost control of the game in the final minutes and let Madrid attack us from all sides. It wasn't only about individual mistakes (Cancelo, Dias, Ferna, etc.). We are 'more defensive' in our play when we keep the ball for the sake of keeping it, i.e. without attempting risky passes. And Cancelo is better at this than most of our defenders.
My point was that it is often taken for granted that changing Cancelo's position from LB to RB isn't a big deal and shouldn't affect his performance. But it's far from easy to switch roles within games or from one game to another game. Imagine Walker at LB or Robertson at RB in big games. In our last game at Anfield, Liverpool had two fit LBs and hadn't a fit RB. Klopp's solution wasn't to put Robertson at RB and Tsimikas at LB. He went with Milner at RB who is poor and slow these days. You need different systems of habits and reactions on the right and on the left. Given that Cancelo is involved in all phases of the game, to ask him to do it on both sides within the same game or even from one game to another game may be overwhelming for the most flexible player. Lahm could probably do it, his IQ was top. Cancelo has the talent, but Pep relies on his versatility a bit too much at times (because he is forced to rely on it sometimes).
I would think someone like Laporte would be more than OK to see out 15/20 minutes without us having to sit deep or anything like that. Let Joao do his thing, we get our noses ahead, and then make a move late on to see it out. Plus 15 minutes today, 20 tomorrow has a cumulative effect over time in terms of some rest for the guy.