Fuming!

[machiavellian]

I think it's fairly obvious we've always had fans who pick and chose games (irrespective of finances), for example those who evaporated during the wilderness years under Stuart Pearce, by a lose definition I used the term 'fair-weathers' and you jumped all over it.

You understand the crux of my point but have misrepresented most of it. You've also made some pretty bold assumptions and put numerous words in my mouth.

I believe the loyalty points system is doomed to be replaced as there's only so long it can be undermined, until then club will continue to use it as an avenue to squeeze more from fans concerned about losing their place among the hierarchy in the points ladder.

But I do believe it will be eventually replaced, with what, how the fuck would I know?

And with regards to ironies and contradictions, how could I be "dismissing people who don't go home and away as fair-weather fans", while in the same breath defend someone who can't afford to attend as regularly as he'd like to?

Also, I don't believe the club are beyond criticism, if you do then that's your prerogative. Criticising those in charge of the decisions which impact us in the pocket, and have direct repercussions for our fan base, is something I'll continue to do, regardless of what that makes you think of me. If it helps us to avoid the demographic of our crowd changing to the point where I don't recognise City anymore a la what happened at Stamford Bridge, then I'll continue to highlight initiatives City employ with are symptomatic of such a model.

But that's because I'm on my high horse and I consider myself a superior blue to others who can't attend as regularly, isn't it?

Yes, I'm sure it's the fair-weather fans now getting to the high-profile away games that suddenly the hardcore awayers of yesteryear can no longer afford. Alright, let's assume it's true, and my opinion is that it isn't because there weren't many people below early to mid-twenties (with a majority being over forty on a rough guess) that I could see in the The Swamp for the Sick Swan Massacre. Let's assume it though, why is that any more of an argument than those who couldn't afford it in yesteryear but can now?

I think I was entitled to jump on it.

With regards to ironies and self-contradictions, that's actually one of those I was pointing to. You're accusing people of being fair-weather fans on the basis that they can't afford to be a hardcore awayer. How do the costs of being awayer stack up against £50 for Platinum plus cup schemes? Yet you're criticising the people who can't afford the bigger cost by labelling them fair-weather fans. I think pointing that out is fair game.

£95 for kids. Value Gold, was it £230; City, oh so Stamford.

Not sure what you're going on about here, I think you're tying me in with something Corky was debating earlier in the thread? My points have been wider, more on the changes the club are making in a wider sense which indirectly or directly affect our (everyone's) ability to attend.

And you've fundamentally misunderstood me if you think I'm "criticising the people who can't afford the bigger cost by labelling them fair-weather fans", (or intentionally trying to misrepresent what I've posted).

None of my posts have been criticising anyone who can't afford to be a regular at away games, if anything I've been defending them.

I think you've misunderstood me, I had a slight pop at those who grew bored of us during the Pearce era, but for those people that was entirely irrespective of finances.

My point about the club distinguishing between those 'deserving' of a ticket for a high profile game, probably shouldn't have used the term 'fair-weathers', but it was simply to highlight the two extremes of the scale.

And with regards to the 'new faces' in the away end for big games debate which you touched upon, this is due to the club handing out tickets as part of corporate packages with meals and the like all included for the 'glamour' games. Which, as I mentioned in respect of the undermining of the loyalty point scheme via the club's alterations, is symptomatic of the club taking a different, more unsavory approach to us, and by association - revenue.

 

[Blootoof]

hope its not block 111, row r seat 282, ahem.....

My mate Shittykecks has got that one mate.

 

[oakiecokie]

I can't quite believe the reaction or the size of the reaction to my original post.

Just to put things into perspective: this isn't about loyalty (mine's been resolute), nor money (I chose not to buy a platinum card in the way I wouldn't want Bupa), nor is it about points, although I don't like the way it's gone. The points scheme was about loyalty, not about buying loyalty or loyalty points. I should know. The points scheme was my idea, even if the club weren't remotely interested in it to begin with and it took me two or three years before they'd even consider trying it out. I wrote to Gary Cook about this issue, but didn't get a reply (maybe that email was intercepted too?).

There seem to be a hell of a lot of smug people on this thread who've read the smallprint and good luck to them. I didn't, and because I didn't read it I didn't realise the system had changed. It's not the crime of the century, but it does represent something of a seismic change, so I don't know how I missed it, but there you go.

I do think it's out of order that season ticket holders can ring up on the day that tickets go on sale and not even get "your" own or usual seat. I also think it's out of order that buying a season ticket year in, year out brings you nothing in itself, but spending an extra £50 on a platinum card gets you extra points and in the club's eyes presumably makes you a better supporter.

I've never been in any cup scheme, although I think it's a great idea. I knew I might have to miss a few this season and I missed the Napoli game - so one in almost 30 years. It made even less sense therefore to go on the scheme. I normally ring up and most of the time sit in whatever seat I'm given if my own has gone. I don't even mind. However, and this is the rub: I usually get one a week or two after they go on sale rather than a few days.

Some good points have been raised in this thread, such as the reduced capacity due to UEFA's hoardings and the rehousing of away fans meaning some people can't get their normal seats, but it's come to something when people begin to get abusive because they don't happen to agree with another opinion, whether it's mine or anyone else's.

I lament the passing of the old Manchester City in the days when we didn't win anything but your loyalty was valued a damned sight more than it is today. Long before the petrodollars, the razzmatazz and the so-called "new supporters" came along there were some things - not everything, I grant you - but some things that we did a bit better than we do today.

Ditto BlueMoon. As Dave Gilmour said: "It doesn't have to be like this..."

So I take it that you don`t bother looking on the OS,which is there for a reason,to update fans on most aspects of whats happening at the Club,including seating arrangements for forthcoming games ?
Now even the most shortsighted of City fans do actually read the smallprint.I suggest that maybe a visit to Specsavers will help you for any future bits you may miss.

 

[yayas trusty right foot]

where are the Bayern fans sitting for this game ?

 

[oakiecokie]

where are the Bayern fans sitting for this game ?

City Square.They cant get tickets due to the sellout and fuckers moving about into others seats !

 

[MCC]

Can someone confirm that loyalty points were scrapped when we moved to The Etihad from Maine Road and everyone started on zero?

 

[Skashion]

Not sure what you're going on about here, I think you're tying me in with something Corky was debating earlier in the thread? My points have been wider, more on the changes the club are making in a wider sense which indirectly or directly affect our (everyone's) ability to attend.

And you've fundamentally misunderstood me if you think I'm "criticising the people who can't afford the bigger cost by labelling them fair-weather fans", (or intentionally trying to misrepresent what I've posted).

None of my posts have been criticising anyone who can't afford to be a regular at away games, if anything I've been defending them.

I think you've misunderstood me, I had a slight pop at those who grew bored of us during the Pearce era, but for those people that was entirely irrespective of finances.

My point about the club distinguishing between those 'deserving' of a ticket for a high profile game, probably shouldn't have used the term 'fair-weathers', but it was simply to highlight the two extremes of the scale.

And with regards to the 'new faces' in the away end for big games debate which you touched upon, this is due to the club handing out tickets as part of corporate packages with meals and the like all included for the 'glamour' games. Which, as I mentioned in respect of the undermining of the loyalty point scheme via the club's alterations, is symptomatic of the club taking a different, more unsavory approach to us, and by association - revenue.

I am making implied assumptions but they are valid ones. Firstly, why does anyone give a shit about loyalty points? To get away tickets for high-profile games. That's it, that's the sole purpose of them from a fan's point of view. Secondly, you say loyalty points are a way of differentiating the loyal fan from the fair-weather fan. Where do those differentiating themselves from the rest of the pack pick up their loyalty points. It's not at home because of the sheer amount of season ticket holders all getting the same loyalty points from home games per season. Nope, it's made up at away games. Away games are more expensive. This is pretty self-explanatory. The loyalty points system therefore has always been based on the ability to afford to go to away games.

 

[BTH]

I can't quite believe the reaction or the size of the reaction to my original post.

Just to put things into perspective: this isn't about loyalty (mine's been resolute), nor money (I chose not to buy a platinum card in the way I wouldn't want Bupa), nor is it about points, although I don't like the way it's gone. The points scheme was about loyalty, not about buying loyalty or loyalty points. I should know. The points scheme was my idea, even if the club weren't remotely interested in it to begin with and it took me two or three years before they'd even consider trying it out. I wrote to Gary Cook about this issue, but didn't get a reply (maybe that email was intercepted too?).

There seem to be a hell of a lot of smug people on this thread who've read the smallprint and good luck to them. I didn't, and because I didn't read it I didn't realise the system had changed. It's not the crime of the century, but it does represent something of a seismic change, so I don't know how I missed it, but there you go.

I do think it's out of order that season ticket holders can ring up on the day that tickets go on sale and not even get "your" own or usual seat. I also think it's out of order that buying a season ticket year in, year out brings you nothing in itself, but spending an extra £50 on a platinum card gets you extra points and in the club's eyes presumably makes you a better supporter.

I've never been in any cup scheme, although I think it's a great idea. I knew I might have to miss a few this season and I missed the Napoli game - so one in almost 30 years. It made even less sense therefore to go on the scheme. I normally ring up and most of the time sit in whatever seat I'm given if my own has gone. I don't even mind. However, and this is the rub: I usually get one a week or two after they go on sale rather than a few days.

Some good points have been raised in this thread, such as the reduced capacity due to UEFA's hoardings and the rehousing of away fans meaning some people can't get their normal seats, but it's come to something when people begin to get abusive because they don't happen to agree with another opinion, whether it's mine or anyone else's.

I lament the passing of the old Manchester City in the days when we didn't win anything but your loyalty was valued a damned sight more than it is today. Long before the petrodollars, the razzmatazz and the so-called "new supporters" came along there were some things - not everything, I grant you - but some things that we did a bit better than we do today.

Ditto BlueMoon. As Dave Gilmour said: "It doesn't have to be like this..."

So I take it that you don`t bother looking on the OS,which is there for a reason,to update fans on most aspects of whats happening at the Club,including seating arrangements for forthcoming games ?
Now even the most shortsighted of City fans do actually read the smallprint.I suggest that maybe a visit to Specsavers will help you for any future bits you may miss.

D'oh! In my confession I neglected to mention that I hadn't studied the OS in depth, as you so clearly have. I am shortsighted TBF (Specsavers, you say. I may give them a whirl...) but I may have been busy. I don't know. I'm sorry. Truly I am.

Incidentally, copies of my sworn affidavit are available in blood (blue blood naturally, although presumably not as blue as yours). PM me if you'd like me to send you a copy.

 

[oakiecokie]

I can't quite believe the reaction or the size of the reaction to my original post.

Just to put things into perspective: this isn't about loyalty (mine's been resolute), nor money (I chose not to buy a platinum card in the way I wouldn't want Bupa), nor is it about points, although I don't like the way it's gone. The points scheme was about loyalty, not about buying loyalty or loyalty points. I should know. The points scheme was my idea, even if the club weren't remotely interested in it to begin with and it took me two or three years before they'd even consider trying it out. I wrote to Gary Cook about this issue, but didn't get a reply (maybe that email was intercepted too?).

There seem to be a hell of a lot of smug people on this thread who've read the smallprint and good luck to them. I didn't, and because I didn't read it I didn't realise the system had changed. It's not the crime of the century, but it does represent something of a seismic change, so I don't know how I missed it, but there you go.

I do think it's out of order that season ticket holders can ring up on the day that tickets go on sale and not even get "your" own or usual seat. I also think it's out of order that buying a season ticket year in, year out brings you nothing in itself, but spending an extra £50 on a platinum card gets you extra points and in the club's eyes presumably makes you a better supporter.

I've never been in any cup scheme, although I think it's a great idea. I knew I might have to miss a few this season and I missed the Napoli game - so one in almost 30 years. It made even less sense therefore to go on the scheme. I normally ring up and most of the time sit in whatever seat I'm given if my own has gone. I don't even mind. However, and this is the rub: I usually get one a week or two after they go on sale rather than a few days.

Some good points have been raised in this thread, such as the reduced capacity due to UEFA's hoardings and the rehousing of away fans meaning some people can't get their normal seats, but it's come to something when people begin to get abusive because they don't happen to agree with another opinion, whether it's mine or anyone else's.

I lament the passing of the old Manchester City in the days when we didn't win anything but your loyalty was valued a damned sight more than it is today. Long before the petrodollars, the razzmatazz and the so-called "new supporters" came along there were some things - not everything, I grant you - but some things that we did a bit better than we do today.

Ditto BlueMoon. As Dave Gilmour said: "It doesn't have to be like this..."

So I take it that you don`t bother looking on the OS,which is there for a reason,to update fans on most aspects of whats happening at the Club,including seating arrangements for forthcoming games ?
Now even the most shortsighted of City fans do actually read the smallprint.I suggest that maybe a visit to Specsavers will help you for any future bits you may miss.

D'oh! In my confession I neglected to mention that I hadn't studied the OS in depth, as you so clearly have. I am shortsighted TBF (Specsavers, you say. I may give them a whirl...) but I may have been busy. I don't know. I'm sorry. Truly I am.

Incidentally, copies of my sworn affidavit are available in blood (blue blood naturally, although presumably not as blue as yours). PM me if you'd like me to send you a copy.

Personally I wouldn`t thank you for blue blood.
It would mean that I was either Conservative or related to the Monarchy. ;)

 

[BTH]

So I take it that you don`t bother looking on the OS,which is there for a reason,to update fans on most aspects of whats happening at the Club,including seating arrangements for forthcoming games ?
Now even the most shortsighted of City fans do actually read the smallprint.I suggest that maybe a visit to Specsavers will help you for any future bits you may miss.

D'oh! In my confession I neglected to mention that I hadn't studied the OS in depth, as you so clearly have. I am shortsighted TBF (Specsavers, you say. I may give them a whirl...) but I may have been busy. I don't know. I'm sorry. Truly I am.

Incidentally, copies of my sworn affidavit are available in blood (blue blood naturally, although presumably not as blue as yours). PM me if you'd like me to send you a copy.

Personally I wouldn`t thank you for blue blood.
It would mean that I was either Conservative or related to the Monarchy. ;)

Fair enough. It's neither though TBH!