Future Wingers

Larry Stranger said:
No problem mate.

What it comes down to is we play a totally different style to Burnley. No denying that. So even the way we counter attack differs. The times when we do counter we counter quickly with numbers. One way is when the opposition has a set piece. The ball gets knocked down, Silva plays a little ball to KDB and the front line is off in a hurry. This is by design. KDB leading the break with Sterling, Sane and Jesus was IMO the most terrifying for defences. That's why I want someone who can finish those chances off. The other way we counter is when we already scored a goal. The opposition comes forward and opens us an we counter again with pace.

So when McNeil so called destroyed TAA how did he do it? Was it a lightning quick counter going right down their throat? I didn't watch the game, but I figure it was more that the ball got turned over, Burnley were trying to counter, but Liverpool was still getting into shape to defend so he was taking TAA on the wing while there were still the Liverpool center backs in position. It's different from how we counter.

There's lots of time when the ball turns over to us we don't just try to counter like how Burnley would. We keep possession, play back to the keeper, play out from the back. Opposition most times get back into a defensive shape. This is what happens majority of the game and why most times teams are in a low block. But we do counter a specific way like I said.

Bernardo and Mahrez are different wingers. I don't even consider them wingers. They cut in from the right because they lack pace for one. They aren't used the same way as Sane and Sterling who get the chipped balls in getting behind the defence. Since they lack pace to get around the fullback (if they played on the left) they cut inside from the right. There is more space for them to operate cutting in then (if playing on the left) running into the byline. Their options are linking up with De Bruyne or Walker/Cancelo or getting a shot off for themselves.

Kev gets behind the defence from the midfield and not from a winger perspective. The ball gets played on the wing to Mahrez or Bernardo who occupies the fullback (the quicker defender) and they play Kev into space most times because the opposition midfielder falls asleep and doesn't track his runs. However, like I said before they are learning to track his runs too. If he doesn't go to the byline he sends in the cross from a deeper position.
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The only reason I mentioned the game against Liverpool was because it highlights his ability in various situations; kick and run from deeper (Buzzer style), the good old shoulder drop on the edge of the box (Sane style) and running in behind in small or large areas.

Obviously the way Burnley play and counter-attack is completely different to the way we play and counter-attack, so it's not possible to do a direct comparison with the likes of Sterling, Sane, Bernardo or Mahrez, let alone Foden or Angelino. However, in terms of skillset; McNeil does have a lot of the things you say you want from a winger in my opinion.

With the skillset he has I personally think he could play against a low block because his delivery is very consistent and shows a lot of variety, he's also got a rocket of a shot on him, it just very rarely gets utilised at Burnley due to the playing style. I also think he's got the pace (long stride at 6'1") and body strength to play on the counter-attack in our style, mainly because De Bruyne can deliver the perfect ball near enough every time and if he gets goal side of a defender they're not muscling him off the ball, maybe the odd one like Walker could but he's a rare bread of pace and strength.
 
ctid1894 said:
The only reason I mentioned the game against Liverpool was because it highlights his ability in various situations; kick and run from deeper (Buzzer style), the good old shoulder drop on the edge of the box (Sane style) and running in behind in small or large areas.

Obviously the way Burnley play and counter-attack is completely different to the way we play and counter-attack, so it's not possible to do a direct comparison with the likes of Sterling, Sane, Bernardo or Mahrez, let alone Foden or Angelino. However, in terms of skillset; McNeil does have a lot of the things you say you want from a winger in my opinion.

With the skillset he has I personally think he could play against a low block because his delivery is very consistent and shows a lot of variety, he's also got a rocket of a shot on him, it just very rarely gets utilised at Burnley due to the playing style. I also think he's got the pace (long stride at 6'1") and body strength to play on the counter-attack in our style, mainly because De Bruyne can deliver the perfect ball near enough every time and if he gets goal side of a defender they're not muscling him off the ball, maybe the odd one like Walker could but he's a rare bread of pace and strength.
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This is a good discussion so I'm not trying to be cynical in anyway. It helps with the boredom so thanks.
The low block discussion is a good one. When a winger does well 1 on 1 in a low block, after a while opposition will game plan to take that away. Last season Bernardo was on fire from the right. This year everyone says he's off because of the race tweet thing. If you look at it though teams know what he did last season and now double up on him.

So if McNeil was able to prove he was successful on the wing in a low block they'd do the same. He wouldn't be just 1 on 1 with the fullback. They'd know his strengths and try to take that cross away from him. Even if he got by the fullback there would be another defender waiting there. He might have a good shot at well, but I can't see it being used too often because of the low block. Lots of our shots from deeper do get blocked.

This is why Pep has different patterns of play and doesn't always try to rely on individual talent and 1 on 1 on the wings alone (Which is basically how McNeil played against TAA). So you see the chipped or thru ball in to the quick wingers on the left or Kev running to the byline to put in a cross on the right.

When I'm looking at a winger I don't want someone who exclusively plays on the left also. When things aren't working they switch sides. So how effective would McNeil be on the right? Better than Mahrez or Bernardo? This is kind of why I said he'd be the same as them. It's not too much difference IMO to the players we already have. I think we need someone with a skill set similar to Sane if he were to go. IMO it's more important to have that plan b. When Sane came in as a sub he was a game changer. Last year against the Rags was an example. We were 1 up at the swamp and they tried to get that equalizer. With Sane we countered and he made it 0-2. If McNeil is able to ghost in on the far post and score from a De Bruyne cross or get past the fullback and get onto a ball that is played thru to him I take it back. Also if he's able be in positions to finish like a striker on counter attacking opportunities then fine. He seems more like a guy who would assist with crosses. I want someone with a good cross and can act like a striker on the break.
 
Larry Stranger said:
This is a good discussion so I'm not trying to be cynical in anyway. It helps with the boredom so thanks.
The low block discussion is a good one. When a winger does well 1 on 1 in a low block, after a while opposition will game plan to take that away. Last season Bernardo was on fire from the right. This year everyone says he's off because of the race tweet thing. If you look at it though teams know what he did last season and now double up on him.

So if McNeil was able to prove he was successful on the wing in a low block they'd do the same. He wouldn't be just 1 on 1 with the fullback. They'd know his strengths and try to take that cross away from him. Even if he got by the fullback there would be another defender waiting there. He might have a good shot at well, but I can't see it being used too often because of the low block. Lots of our shots from deeper do get blocked.

This is why Pep has different patterns of play and doesn't always try to rely on individual talent and 1 on 1 on the wings alone (Which is basically how McNeil played against TAA). So you see the chipped or thru ball in to the quick wingers on the left or Kev running to the byline to put in a cross on the right.

When I'm looking at a winger I don't want someone who exclusively plays on the left also. When things aren't working they switch sides. So how effective would McNeil be on the right? Better than Mahrez or Bernardo? This is kind of why I said he'd be the same as them. It's not too much difference IMO to the players we already have. I think we need someone with a skill set similar to Sane if he were to go. IMO it's more important to have that plan b. When Sane came in as a sub he was a game changer. Last year against the Rags was an example. We were 1 up at the swamp and they tried to get that equalizer. With Sane we countered and he made it 0-2. If McNeil is able to ghost in on the far post and score from a De Bruyne cross or get past the fullback and get onto a ball that is played thru to him I take it back. Also if he's able be in positions to finish like a striker on counter attacking opportunities then fine. He seems more like a guy who would assist with crosses. I want someone with a good cross and can act like a striker on the break.
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I think we'll have a tough time finding a Sané replacement. The only comparable players I seem to find are Moussa Diaby and Leon Bailey, both at leverkusen. They're fast, left footed, very promising and technical just like Sané. However Bailey has been inconsistent for a long time now, and as a result he has been benched for Moussa Diaby. Diaby himself is Sané fast, but has just started to find end product so it's hard to say if he can deliver those returns consistently for a longer period.

I think our best bet would be to find a a right footed winger that can play on both flanks and have Sané pace. That would mean Sterling or our new winger can play a similar role to Sané but on the right instead. However that means that some of the KDB low crosses that he pings from the right may not be just as effective with a inverted left winger.

The only solutions seems to be 1. Beg Sané to stay 2. Tweak our system and get someone like Sané on the opposite flank instead, but some dilemmas may occur. 3. Settle for someone that's probably not going to be near Sané levels, at least not for the first season
 
Larry Stranger said:
This is a good discussion so I'm not trying to be cynical in anyway. It helps with the boredom so thanks.
The low block discussion is a good one. When a winger does well 1 on 1 in a low block, after a while opposition will game plan to take that away. Last season Bernardo was on fire from the right. This year everyone says he's off because of the race tweet thing. If you look at it though teams know what he did last season and now double up on him.

So if McNeil was able to prove he was successful on the wing in a low block they'd do the same. He wouldn't be just 1 on 1 with the fullback. They'd know his strengths and try to take that cross away from him. Even if he got by the fullback there would be another defender waiting there. He might have a good shot at well, but I can't see it being used too often because of the low block. Lots of our shots from deeper do get blocked.

This is why Pep has different patterns of play and doesn't always try to rely on individual talent and 1 on 1 on the wings alone (Which is basically how McNeil played against TAA). So you see the chipped or thru ball in to the quick wingers on the left or Kev running to the byline to put in a cross on the right.

When I'm looking at a winger I don't want someone who exclusively plays on the left also. When things aren't working they switch sides. So how effective would McNeil be on the right? Better than Mahrez or Bernardo? This is kind of why I said he'd be the same as them. It's not too much difference IMO to the players we already have. I think we need someone with a skill set similar to Sane if he were to go. IMO it's more important to have that plan b. When Sane came in as a sub he was a game changer. Last year against the Rags was an example. We were 1 up at the swamp and they tried to get that equalizer. With Sane we countered and he made it 0-2. If McNeil is able to ghost in on the far post and score from a De Bruyne cross or get past the fullback and get onto a ball that is played thru to him I take it back. Also if he's able be in positions to finish like a striker on counter attacking opportunities then fine. He seems more like a guy who would assist with crosses. I want someone with a good cross and can act like a striker on the break.
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He's capable of all those things:
Back post - West Ham
Cutting in from the right wing - Bournemouth
Scoring on the counter - Wolves

Burnley don't really play the chipped/through balls like we do, so it's impossible to give a specific example but Sane played right wing when we bought him from Shalke in a completely different system to ours and that didn't stop him from adapting his game. You can't argue he's got the pace to get in behind when you see the clips against TAA, who is far from slow himself. He regularly gets doubled up on by Burnley's opponents, even his highlight videos show that without you having to watch a full game.

If you're expecting someone left footed who can cross like De Bruyne, with the pace of Sane, who can find space in the box and finish like Aguero; good luck. Sterling couldn't cross a box on a ballot paper, it doesn't stop him being one of the first names on the team sheet. Mahrez and Bernardo very rarely score tap-ins. Sane is a special player, well was, let's see how he gets on after such a severe injury because it's blunted Mendy's running power and speed pretty drastically, however he's not perfect. No player is and if that's your expectations then you'll never be happy with anyone we could potentially sign.
 
Ederson's smiley tattoo said:
I think we'll have a tough time finding a Sané replacement. The only comparable players I seem to find are Moussa Diaby and Leon Bailey, both at leverkusen. They're fast, left footed, very promising and technical just like Sané. However Bailey has been inconsistent for a long time now, and as a result he has been benched for Moussa Diaby. Diaby himself is Sané fast, but has just started to find end product so it's hard to say if he can deliver those returns consistently for a longer period.

I think our best bet would be to find a a right footed winger that can play on both flanks and have Sané pace. That would mean Sterling or our new winger can play a similar role to Sané but on the right instead. However that means that some of the KDB low crosses that he pings from the right may not be just as effective with a inverted left winger.

The only solutions seems to be 1. Beg Sané to stay 2. Tweak our system and get someone like Sané on the opposite flank instead, but some dilemmas may occur. 3. Settle for someone that's probably not going to be near Sané levels, at least not for the first season
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That would be Doku, but i would prefer Osumane Dembele, what ever happens we should not block Braaf, who should be in the first team squad next season
 
Duncan Castles reckons we have an interest in Wolves' jet-powered Adama Traore. As if to show how well founded the story is, prices mentioned vary from £32m to over £100m.
 
Summerbuzz said:
Duncan Castles reckons we have an interest in Wolves' jet-powered Adama Traore. As if to show how well founded the story is, prices mentioned vary from £32m to over £100m.
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He has been accurate with our transfers so I would consider his input as very close to the truth.
 
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