General Election - December 12th, 2019

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

Keep the wealthy healthy seems to be the motto....

I’m surprised that line isn’t in the manifesto. Mind you, they probably deserve to live healthier longer...

 

[Chippy_boy]

I’m surprised that line isn’t in the manifesto. Mind you, they probably deserve to live healthier longer...

Of course we do. We don't want poor plebs cluttering up the country do we.

The quality of debate on here has never been lower.

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

Bingo.

Boris told porkies as Labour are doing now.

Easy this politics lark.

The difference is that Boris is a proven serial liar and his lies are often exposed very quickly. Labour are making an accusation that I suspect is true but they can not substantiate it beyond circumstantial evidence. Very different things.

 

[BobKowalski]

I've no idea what a thinking person would imagine we might be considering doing with the US. Emphasis a thinking person.

Why on earth would we agree to pay maybe 10x more for certain drugs than we pay already? It makes no sense. Unless of course it was in return for some other benefit, which meant the overall picture for us was better.

But it is ludicrous to imagine that anyone in the UK would advocate some kind of deal which was to our detrimnent. Why on earth would anyone do that?

There is NOTHING to see here. Literally nothing. The NHS is already severely hampered in its spending. What on earth would be the point of unilaterally making it worse. Anyone suggesting this is either mischief-making, or an idiot. And in many cases on this forum, both.

Because it allows companies to make more money. Pharma is a business. Big business. The point of business is to make money.

 

[blueinsa]

The difference is that Boris is a proven serial liar and his lies are often exposed very quickly. Labour are making an accusation that I suspect is true but they can not substantiate it beyond circumstantial evidence. Very different things.

No there is no difference.

Politicians often lie, its the default position as they say what they think you want to hear so you vote for them.

Labour have committed to insulating 27 million homes, 7000 homes a day, every day of the week and it will take 10 years to do it.

Its a lie because its an impossibility.

If it wins them one single vote it was a worthwhile lie to tell.

Its how it works.

 

[George Hannah]

What legitimate concerns?

Let's get them on the table. What is being suggested? The "the NHS is on the table" soundbite may frighten voters, when in fact there is absolutely bugger all to be concerned about. So if there's actual concerns, it would be rather good if Labour could explain what they are?

The concern is an expanded private healthcare sector dominated by US interests, competing with the state sector and profiteering at its expense. Raw capitalism recognises no limits on what money can buy and medicine and medical services are top of their list of commodities to be sold. They regard our NHS as just another commercial rival and will seek to damage it as such.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Labour want to teach kids how nasty and evil Britain has been.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50551765
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...n-taught-injustice-British-Empire-school.html

 

[meltonblue]

Correct, they have. I have no other reason not to seriously consider the Lib Dems aside from the glaring fact they have no interest in my opinion on EU membership.

I don't see Swinson as much of a leader, but I don't vote on personalities, I vote on policies and when a Party gives me the middle finger on an important issue, i'm going to do the same back.

Agree with that.

 

[lancs blue]

Keep the wealthy healthy seems to be the motto....

The wealthy are always likely to be healthier whatever the circumstances, the failure to tackle poverty is at the root of that trend.

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

What legitimate concerns?

Let's get them on the table. What is being suggested? The "the NHS is on the table" soundbite may frighten voters, when in fact there is absolutely bugger all to be concerned about. So if there's actual concerns, it would be rather good if Labour could explain what they are?

Are they really suggesting the US are saying to Boris, "we'd like you to buy more NHS drugs from US firms at 10x the price, and he's saying yes, no problem".

Do Labour campaigners think we are idiots?

Warning. It’s a reasonably long read so you might not be up to it.
Good last question. The way to get rid of the NHS is to make it so shit, that people are desperate for something ‘better’. Your chaps are well on the way to making it shitter than it’s ever been. Cameron hacked away at it even though he’d used it a lot. Many of the current ruling class have never used it and will never use it. They aren’t part of 65000+ trolley waits, or would contemplate waiting 18 weeks for treatment, or 4 weeks for a GP appointment or be grateful for getting cancer treatment 2 months after being referred. Losing it will be no big deal to most of them.
As for lying. Where to start? We will do nursing first.

‘'The Bursary is back... we will recruit 50,000 more nurses.'

... ignoring the fact there is no time scale for more staff, neither claim can be true.

Factually, the bursary is not being reinstated. Students may receive a £5,000-£8,000 annual maintenance grant, every year, during their course, to help with their cost of living and they won’t have to pay it back. But, they will still leave uni with student debt.
Why should they be different to other students, you may ask?
Student nurses are different to other students, as their courses and placements run throughout the year, meaning student nurses have no opportunity to do the part-time jobs, other students can do, to defray their living costs, it is also not unusual for student nurse to drive, bus, or train 60 miles to a placement. The cost of which is borne by the student.
The one in 5 fall-out rate, in nurse training, is more to do with these type of living and travel problems, than it is not wanting the pressures of becoming a nurse.
Fifty thousand more nurses? NO
It turns out the figure is made up of; 14,000 trainees, 12,500 overseas recruits and 5,000 from the nursing apprenticeship scheme.

The balance would be made up by retaining 18,500 nurses, through flexible working offers, who otherwise would have left the NHS.

• 14,000 over five years, the life of the Parliament, is 2,800 'new' nurses a year, around a 10% uplift.
• 12,500 will come from overseas; as yet there is no clarity on immigration policy and immigrant health workers will have to pay around £600 for them and for eachof their family to use the NHS, they are working in. By September this year the international GP recruitment programme had brought in just 140 doctors.
• 5,000 apprentices... last year just 20 apprentices registered for the degree programme.
• 18,500 retained though better working conditions? How can anyone know what the figure for 'might-leave', is? How can keeping the staff you have become 'new staff'? Nursing is an ageing workforce, around half of leavers are retirees. Every week 233 nurses leave early, most citing 'work-life balance'.

Policy? Like much else with this PM, this is just yet more industrial scale lying.