General Election June 8th

[kevin horlocks wand]

I've seen this being posed around a lot by my Labour voting 'friends' under the sentiment that 'Tory Voters are stupid'.



Labour voters need to learn that calling others stupid as a method to garner their support or influence their voting decision tends to make people take the opposing view. It's why the left is struggling, why Labour is haemorhagging support from the undecideds and why their viewpoint lost the public support in the EU referendum.

I'm fed up with hearing them tell us why they think the Tories are bad, I want to know why they think the Labour party will be the better choice without mentioning the NHS. They seem to think it's Labour's raison d'etre. How will Labour make Brexit a success that delivers on what the leave voters wanted? How will Labour appeal to the centre right? Trident, armed forces spending, grammar schools, how will Labour address these elements of debate that many people in this country support?

So far nothing has been said. It's just "Oh well those voters who supports those incentives are just evil people, so we don't care for their support". I'm just told to fear the Conservatives because, and here's the key reason, they think they are bad. Labour introduced the Minimum Wage that saw workers being exploited and my wages go down. Conservatives introduced a Living Wage that saw my wages go up. I've been a Labour voter for years and I can't bring myself to vote for Labour given the direction they are going, not because I think Corbyn is out of his depth. Nice guy, but seemingly naive about the world.

Labour; a party created for giving working people a say in Parliament, now concentrates more on "social" issues rather than workers rights (some people want zero hours contracts guys! It helps give us the flexibility to study for university, do other jobs, care for others at home, or pursue other interests without being tied by contractual obligations of "working the minimum contracted hours stated" and not be at risk of losing our current employment), unemployment benefits not being "enough" for people when benefits aren't supposed to be for that purpose, and if you don't agree with them, you're stupid, a basket of deplorable attitudes, 'turkey's voting for Christmas'. Labour used to be the voice of equality now it seeks to divide the country into right think and wrong think people.

take a bow.....exactly.

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

Apparently if we had the temerity to leave the European Union and re-establish democracy in our country, then the very next day our economy would implode.

Surprise surprise the British establishment, the IMF, the POTUS and the EU were all 'overstating things' (to say the least).

There will probably (but not definitely) be a small short lived period of economic pain. A price worth paying for gaining control of the people we elect to parliament.

The only thing i agree with there is that there will be economic pain - all reasonable and informed views point to it being significant and longstanding. What we get in exchange is a solution to a completely misrepresented problem not to mention and long list of very clear and un-ambiguous problems such as the Irish border and Gibraltar border.

 

[GortonBlue62]

The only thing i agree with there is that there will be economic pain - all reasonable and informed views point to it being significant and longstanding. What we get in exchange is a solution to a completely misrepresented problem not to mention and long list of very clear and un-ambiguous problems such as the Irish border and Gibraltar border.

Most of the reasonable and informed views points I'm hearing point to it being short term pain which will look like a blip a decade from now.

I guess we have different sources. One of the things that's influenced me recently is Mervyn King's analysis of the situation. He has retired now, his reputation is intact and assured, so has no one to answer to and he is firmly in the 'blip' camp. Many other economists share that view, even remainers.

The Irish border problem will resolve itself quite easily. Gibraltar will continue to be a bone of contention whether we are in or out of the EU.

 

[Len Rum]

Apparently if we had the temerity to leave the European Union and re-establish democracy in our country, then the very next day our economy would implode.

Surprise surprise the British establishment, the IMF, the POTUS and the EU were all 'overstating things' (to say the least).

There will probably (but not definitely) be a small short lived period of economic pain. A price worth paying for gaining control of the people we elect to parliament.

"There will probably ( but not definitely) be a small short lived period of economic pain".
Could you possibly back that up with any facts/data?

 

[BlueHammer85]

I'm fed up with hearing them tell us why they think the Tories are bad, I want to know why they think the Labour party will be the better choice without mentioning the NHS. They seem to think it's Labour's raison d'etre. How will Labour make Brexit a success that delivers on what the leave voters wanted? How will Labour appeal to the centre right? Trident, armed forces spending, grammar schools, how will Labour address these elements of debate that many people in this country support?

- Labour will stand up for everyone, not just a privileged few
- Labour will raise the minimum wage to more than £8 by October 2019 and promote the living wage.
- Labour will ban exploitative zero-hours contracts so that anyone working regular hours for more than 12 weeks can get a regular contract
- Labour won't give tax breaks to millionaires, They will cut taxes for millions of people on low and middle incomes instead.
- Labour will clamp down on tax avoidance and ban 'non-dom' status (up the hammers!)
- Labour will cut the deficit every year and balance the books, sensibly and fairly, without the extreme spending cuts the Tories are planning to make.
- Labour will scrap the Bedroom Tax
- Labour will extend free childcare from 15 to 25 hours a week for working parents of three- and four-year-olds
- Labour will control immigration with fair rules and make it illegal for employers to undercut wages by exploiting workers.
- Labour will train and recruit 20,000 more nurses and 8,000 more doctors by 2020, paid for by tackling tax avoidance, a levy on tobacco companies, and a tax on the most expensive properties worth over £2 million.
- Labour will guarantee a GP appointment within 48 hours - and on the same day for those who need it.
- Labour will radically improve mental health provision, especially for young people, by prioritising investment in under-18s and making sure teachers are trained to spot problems early
- Labour will cut tuition fees from £9,000 to £6,000 (which will help students and is also good for our economy).
- Labour will freeze energy bills until 2017 so they can fall but not rise, and give the regulator the power to cut bills when wholesale prices fall.
- Labour are determined to tackle climate change and create a million green jobs


Brexit
- Labour backs Brexit
- Labour would guarantee rights for EU nationals who live in the UK
- Labour would give Parliament a say on the final deal
- Labour would prioritise trade with the EU and look at staying in the customs union
- Labour would ditch the Great Repeal Bill and emphasise the continuation of EU rights post-Brexit

 

[GortonBlue62]

"There will probably ( but not definitely) be a small short lived period of economic pain".
Could you possibly back that up with any facts/data?

Certainly not. Life's too short.

Get yourself a copy of the Times and the Telegraph today. Tomorrow get the Economist and the Spectator. You could also get yourself a copy of the Eurosceptics handbook from the Civitas web site. It's a question of who you trust (and for many people who will back up your prejudices).

Time will tell. One result already in though (which may be an indicator of what's to come) the meltdown of the UK economy predicted in the aftermath of a vote for Brexit did not materialize - quite the opposite in fact. Let's see what happens. You an probably guess which outcome my money's on.

 

[Blue Whale]

I have a conscience and a heart and a brain in my head and hope in my heart and I'm voting Conservative.

Sorry, it's simply not possible to have all these things at the same time. The brain bit will tell you why.

 

[CityStu]

- Labour will stand up for everyone, not just a privileged few
- Labour will raise the minimum wage to more than £8 by October 2019 and promote the living wage.
- Labour will ban exploitative zero-hours contracts so that anyone working regular hours for more than 12 weeks can get a regular contract
- Labour won't give tax breaks to millionaires, They will cut taxes for millions of people on low and middle incomes instead.
- Labour will clamp down on tax avoidance and ban 'non-dom' status (up the hammers!)
- Labour will cut the deficit every year and balance the books, sensibly and fairly, without the extreme spending cuts the Tories are planning to make.
- Labour will scrap the Bedroom Tax
- Labour will extend free childcare from 15 to 25 hours a week for working parents of three- and four-year-olds
- Labour will control immigration with fair rules and make it illegal for employers to undercut wages by exploiting workers.
- Labour will train and recruit 20,000 more nurses and 8,000 more doctors by 2020, paid for by tackling tax avoidance, a levy on tobacco companies, and a tax on the most expensive properties worth over £2 million.
- Labour will guarantee a GP appointment within 48 hours - and on the same day for those who need it.
- Labour will radically improve mental health provision, especially for young people, by prioritising investment in under-18s and making sure teachers are trained to spot problems early
- Labour will cut tuition fees from £9,000 to £6,000 (which will help students and is also good for our economy).
- Labour will freeze energy bills until 2017 so they can fall but not rise, and give the regulator the power to cut bills when wholesale prices fall.
- Labour are determined to tackle climate change and create a million green jobs


Brexit
- Labour backs Brexit
- Labour would guarantee rights for EU nationals who live in the UK
- Labour would give Parliament a say on the final deal
- Labour would prioritise trade with the EU and look at staying in the customs union
- Labour would ditch the Great Repeal Bill and emphasise the continuation of EU rights post-Brexit

How many money trees will they be planting?

 

[Len Rum]

Certainly not. Life's too short.

Get yourself a copy of the Times and the Telegraph today. Tomorrow get the Economist and the Spectator. You could also get yourself a copy of the Eurosceptics handbook from the Civitas web site. It's a question of who you trust (and for many people who will back up your prejudices).

Time will tell. One result already in though (which may be an indicator of what's to come) the meltdown of the UK economy predicted in the aftermath of a vote for Brexit did not materialize - quite the opposite in fact. Let's see what happens. You an probably guess which outcome my money's on.

Only wanted a few lines mate.
Go on ,have a go.
If you haven't got a clue don't be afraid to say so.

 

[M18CTID]

- Labour will stand up for everyone, not just a privileged few
- Labour will raise the minimum wage to more than £8 by October 2019 and promote the living wage.
- Labour will ban exploitative zero-hours contracts so that anyone working regular hours for more than 12 weeks can get a regular contract
- Labour won't give tax breaks to millionaires, They will cut taxes for millions of people on low and middle incomes instead.
- Labour will clamp down on tax avoidance and ban 'non-dom' status (up the hammers!)
- Labour will cut the deficit every year and balance the books, sensibly and fairly, without the extreme spending cuts the Tories are planning to make.
- Labour will scrap the Bedroom Tax
- Labour will extend free childcare from 15 to 25 hours a week for working parents of three- and four-year-olds
- Labour will control immigration with fair rules and make it illegal for employers to undercut wages by exploiting workers.
- Labour will train and recruit 20,000 more nurses and 8,000 more doctors by 2020, paid for by tackling tax avoidance, a levy on tobacco companies, and a tax on the most expensive properties worth over £2 million.
- Labour will guarantee a GP appointment within 48 hours - and on the same day for those who need it.
- Labour will radically improve mental health provision, especially for young people, by prioritising investment in under-18s and making sure teachers are trained to spot problems early
- Labour will cut tuition fees from £9,000 to £6,000 (which will help students and is also good for our economy).
- Labour will freeze energy bills until 2017 so they can fall but not rise, and give the regulator the power to cut bills when wholesale prices fall.
- Labour are determined to tackle climate change and create a million green jobs


Brexit
- Labour backs Brexit
- Labour would guarantee rights for EU nationals who live in the UK
- Labour would give Parliament a say on the final deal
- Labour would prioritise trade with the EU and look at staying in the customs union
- Labour would ditch the Great Repeal Bill and emphasise the continuation of EU rights post-Brexit

Most of that sounds fantastic on paper but what's the reality of it all happening if they get in? The cynic in me thinks that Labour can promise all those things as they know they've got next to no chance of winning the election - in other words, if things were a lot closer then they wouldn't be promising half those things. It reminds me of the debate in the run up to the 1992 election between Norman Lamont (Con), John Smith (Lab), and Alan Beith (Lib Dem) about the economy. Labour had a decent chance of winning the election that year and Smith was saying a lot of sensible stuff, but Beith (who's a nice bloke by the way) was coming out with all kinds of wild pledges. John Smith's response was a classic along the lines of: "With all due respect to Alan Beith, I've got every chance of being part of the next government and he's got no chance so he can promise whatever he wants without any comeback"