General Election June 8th

[mcfc1632]

Assuming that the leaking of the Labour Manifesto is accurate - it does make we wonder if they continue to think that a lot of their core support are thick and continue to take them for granted?

Some policies that will sound very appealing - no matter that there is very little credibility, IMO, of how they will be afforded - but surely they are all rendered meaningless by the stance on Brexit - do they really think that their voters cannot see the implications of that policy?

I raise this on the Election thread rather than the A50 thread because it is to do with the electability of Labour.

A UK stance that we will not leave the EU until we have an agreed trade deal simply hands a blank cheque to Juncker and his negotiators to invent as big a bill as possible - no matter if there is no credibility to it and state that they will not start discussions on trade until it is paid.

So the EU are handed a total win scenario - they get a massive lump sum - as big as they like - they can probably get an massive annual sum into the future - as big as they like - and if that does not happen - well essentially the UK stays in the EU and they secure our contributions for evermore on better terms than before 23/06.

Pure vandalism of the UK's interests - do they really think that the Leave voting Labour supporters cannot see that?

 

[arbabarshad]

Assuming that the leaking of the Labour Manifesto is accurate - it does make we wonder if they continue to think that a lot of their core support are thick and continue to take them for granted?

Some policies that will sound very appealing - no matter that there is very little credibility, IMO, of how they will be afforded - but surely they are all rendered meaningless by the stance on Brexit - do they really think that their voters cannot see the implications of that policy?

I raise this on the Election thread rather than the A50 thread because it is to do with the electability of Labour.

A UK stance that we will not leave the EU until we have an agreed trade deal simply hands a blank cheque to Juncker and his negotiators to invent as big a bill as possible - no matter if there is no credibility to it and state that they will not start discussions on trade until it is paid.

So the EU are handed a total win scenario - they get a massive lump sum - as big as they like - they can probably get an massive annual sum into the future - as big as they like - and if that does not happen - well essentially the UK stays in the EU and they secure our contributions for evermore on better terms than before 23/06.

Pure vandalism of the UK's interests - do they really think that the Leave voting Labour supporters cannot see that?

It appears that the most important thing from the Labour manifesto leak for you is Brexit policy. You mention other policies may be appealing but you dismiss them by saying they have little credibility in your opinion. Would you care to elaborate on why other policies have little credibility? I ask because other policies may be more important to some people than brexit policy.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

Pure vandalism of the UK's interests - do they really think that the Leave voting Labour supporters cannot see that?

I'd think that was covered by the one sentence question, and the draft's note (from the BBC) of

• Accept the EU referendum result and "build a close new relationship with the EU" prioritising jobs and and workers' rights

I'd think a Leave voter might view that as a commitment to Leave. That is the entirety of what the referendum question asked.

 

[bronco]

Assuming that the leaking of the Labour Manifesto is accurate - it does make we wonder if they continue to think that a lot of their core support are thick and continue to take them for granted?

Some policies that will sound very appealing - no matter that there is very little credibility, IMO, of how they will be afforded - but surely they are all rendered meaningless by the stance on Brexit - do they really think that their voters cannot see the implications of that policy?

I raise this on the Election thread rather than the A50 thread because it is to do with the electability of Labour.

A UK stance that we will not leave the EU until we have an agreed trade deal simply hands a blank cheque to Juncker and his negotiators to invent as big a bill as possible - no matter if there is no credibility to it and state that they will not start discussions on trade until it is paid.

So the EU are handed a total win scenario - they get a massive lump sum - as big as they like - they can probably get an massive annual sum into the future - as big as they like - and if that does not happen - well essentially the UK stays in the EU and they secure our contributions for evermore on better terms than before 23/06.

Pure vandalism of the UK's interests - do they really think that the Leave voting Labour supporters cannot see that?

Brexit is a total smokescreen, the reason the tories bang out about it is because they have nothing else to offer - they have been in charge of an economy that has stagnated over 7 years despite doubling government borrowing and raising vat (blaming labour for the " mess" they left in 2010 don't wash anymore) labour policies are affordable if the 11 billion quid in tax currently dodged and ignored by the Tories is chased up

 

[cibaman]

There are some elements of the draft manifesto that appeal to me. Its the totality of the package that just looks unaffordable and impractical. Plus the tone of it suggests a hankering for a return to the 1970's.

That said, if Labour had produced the perfect manifesto I still wouldnt vote for them. I just dont think that Corbyn, McDonnell, Abbott & co have the skills to effectively implement their proposals. I wouldn't have any faith in Corbyn to deal with "events".

 

[bonespost]

Thank you. It's Glazer economics.

http://www.nationaldebtclock.co.uk/ ps Strong and stable

 

[Metal Biker]

I know, you can't walk the streets without hundreds of grime encrusted skeletal starvelings clutching at your
trouser legs begging for sustenance.
Definitions of 'poverty' are now beyond parody.

You can mock, but do you know how many children in this country still only have hand-me-down iphones and PS3's?

Think of the children you heartless monster!

 

[mcfc1632]

It appears that the most important thing from the Labour manifesto leak for you is Brexit policy. You mention other policies may be appealing but you dismiss them by saying they have little credibility in your opinion. Would you care to elaborate on why other policies have little credibility? I ask because other policies may be more important to some people than brexit policy.

It amazes me how so many people on here quote posts and take stances on them without actually reading them properly

My post was clearly about the simple fact that Labour's support in a large number of constituencies is vulnerable because there was a majority Leave vote - that is why my post focussed on that.

The concern for me - as someone that has voted Labour more often than for any other party - is that no matter how appealing some of the other headline policies may be - they are rendered, at a stroke, IMO, to be consigned to be side issues in this election by the stupidity of the Brexit policy.

Your opinion might be that the Labour Party's policy on Brexit is not a major factor for traditional Labour voters in all the many marginal Labour constituencies - you are entitled to your opinion, although I would suggest that the available evidence is mostly against you.

As for the credibility of the other policies that I questioned - well, I only made a brief comment because that was not the main thrust of my post. But of course whilst some of the policies themselves are attractive - some of the main Labour leaders this last couple of weeks have done a good job of casting their credibility in terms of affordability and therefore deliverability into doubt.

But that aside - if a Labour victory places the UK in a position where the EU is invited to milk the UK for as much money as it wants - as big (biggest) a bill as they can invent - well the UK is not going to be positioned to renationalise any industry - or invest £6bn into anything etc.

You say "...other policies may be more important to some people than brexit policy"

It would be great if there was no need to consider Brexit it in a GE and focus on all the other policies - but, again only IMO, that is simply not possible in this GE.

As I say I have voted for Labour more often than any other party - but FFS why to they continue to undermine themselves through their incoherence on all matters economic and fiscal.

 

[bronco]

It amazes me how so many people on here quote posts and take stances on them without actually reading them properly

My post was clearly about the simple fact that Labour's support in a large number of constituencies is vulnerable because there was a majority Leave vote - that is why my post focussed on that.

The concern for me - as someone that has voted Labour more often than for any other party - is that no matter how appealing some of the other headline policies may be - they are rendered, at a stroke, IMO, to be consigned to be side issues in this election by the stupidity of the Brexit policy.

Your opinion might be that the Labour Party's policy on Brexit is not a major factor for traditional Labour voters in all the many marginal Labour constituencies - you are entitled to your opinion, although I would suggest that the available evidence is mostly against you.

As for the credibility of the other policies that I questioned - well, I only made a brief comment because that was not the main thrust of my post. But of course whilst some of the policies themselves are attractive - some of the main Labour leaders this last couple of weeks have done a good job of casting their credibility in terms of affordability and therefore deliverability into doubt.

But that aside - if a Labour victory places the UK in a position where the EU is invited to milk the UK for as much money as it wants - as big (biggest) a bill as they can invent - well the UK is not going to be positioned to renationalise any industry - or invest £6bn into anything etc.

You say "...other policies may be more important to some people than brexit policy"

It would be great if there was no need to consider Brexit it in a GE and focus on all the other policies - but, again only IMO, that is simply not possible in this GE.

As I say I have voted for Labour more often than any other party - but FFS why to they continue to undermine themselves through their incoherence on all matters economic and fiscal.

But there is absolutely no guarantee that the Tories could get a better deal over brexit than labour?

 

[mcfc1632]

I'd think that was covered by the one sentence question, and the draft's note (from the BBC) of

• Accept the EU referendum result and "build a close new relationship with the EU" prioritising jobs and and workers' rights

I'd think a Leave voter might view that as a commitment to Leave. That is the entirety of what the referendum question asked.

This post makes me genuinely question whether the reply that I have just given to another poster is as clearly as valid as I had thought.

Within in it I said:

“But that aside - if a Labour victory places the UK in a position where the EU is invited to milk the UK for as much money as it wants - as big (biggest) a bill as they can invent - well the UK is not going to be positioned to renationalise any industry - or invest £6bn into anything etc.”

That, for me, is a self-evident fact and – sorry to say, it is just my own opinion – renders the point(s) of your posts meaningless

The reason that I say that your post makes me question the validity of my own, is that at the heart of my post was the sure belief that anybody and everybody that is a Leave supporting Labour voter would see that the Labour’s – “....won’t leave the EU before there is a trade deal’ policy is an immediate and straightforward invitation to the EU negotiators to screw the UK over.

Is it not that obvious? Can you not understand that?

I assume that you are not a Leave voter – but please tell me that you can.