General Election June 8th

Who will you vote for at the General Election?

  • Conservatives

    Votes: 189 28.8%
  • Labour

    Votes: 366 55.8%
  • Liberal Democrats

    Votes: 37 5.6%
  • SNP

    Votes: 8 1.2%
  • UKIP

    Votes: 23 3.5%
  • Other

    Votes: 33 5.0%

  • Total voters
    656
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EU immigrants make up about 5% of English NHS staff and about 5% of the English population, according to the best available data. Across the UK, EU immigrants make up 10% of registered doctors and 4% of registered nurses. Immigrants from outside the EU make up larger proportions. Restrictions on non-EU immigrants have affected NHS recruitment, suggesting that the same could happen if there were limits on EU immigration. However, these restrictions did not trigger a process of existing healthcare workers fleeing the UK.
55,000 out of the 1.2 million staff in the English NHS are citizens of other EU countries, according to the English Health Service’s Electronic Staff Record. This includes doctors; nurses; other professionals like paramedics and pharmacists; support workers providing care; and administrative staff.

Assuming that the staff who were not asked or did not fill out this field had a similar mix of nationalities to those who did, this implies about 5% of NHS trust staff are citizens of another EU country – compared to around 5% of the population of England.
Interesting.

It would be good to know the figure of non EU workers (Nurses) in the NHS.

That said, there would be little to no constraints on bringing fully trained and skilled nurses into the country IF we need them (which clearly we do). However I would much prefer to see a plan for the longer term where we decreased theneed for Foreign Nationals as we were training British people to do the work. BTW Nurses never had to go to University in the past, why is it such a requirement now?
 
Just on railways, there's a very powerful graph showing the trend for passenger kilometres carried by the GB rail system by 1947. Unfortunately I don't know how to paste in a chart, but the upshot is that in 1947 total passenger kms was 37.0 million, and by 1997 it was 34.1 million. In no year between 1947 and 1997 did it reach 37 million.

However, since 1997 the use of the rail system has more or less doubled, reaching 65.0 million passenger km in 2016.

The point is I am not sure where the idea has come from that privatisation of rail has been such as fiasco, as it seems to have found a way to grow passenger travel in a way that BR did not.

The data is from the ORR and is here:

Calendar year Total passenger kilometres
1947 37.0
1948 34.2
1949 34.0
1950 32.5
1951 33.5
1952 33.3
1953 33.5
1954 33.3
1955 32.7
1956 34.0
1957 36.4
1958 35.0
1959 35.8
1960 34.7
1961 33.9
1962 31.8
1963 31.5
1964 32.0
1965 30.1
1966 29.7
1967 29.1
1968 28.7
1969 29.6
1970 30.4
1971 30.1
1972 28.3
1973 29.8
1974 30.9
1975 30.3
1976 28.6
1977 29.3
1978 30.7
1979 32.0
1980 30.3
1981 29.7
1982 27.2
1983 29.5
1984 29.8
1985 29.7
1986 30.9
1987 31.7
1988 34.0
1989 33.5
1990 33.7
1991 32.1
1992 32.0
1993 30.6
1994 28.8
1995 29.7
1996 31.7
1997 34.1
1998 35.7
1999 37.9
2000 39.0
2001 38.6
2002 39.3
2003 40.4
2004 41.7
2005 42.7
2006 45.2
2007 48.3
2008 50.6
2009 50.4
2010 53.3
2011 55.9
2012 58.1
2013 59.1
2014 61.8
2015 63.6
2016 (p) 65.0

Yes the government have found a way to drive us onto trains. They have made it impossible to travel by car, bus into City centres, due to years of under investment in roads. anyone stuck in a car trying to get around London would jump on a train no mater about the cost or comfort.
 
Interesting.

It would be good to know the figure of non EU workers (Nurses) in the NHS.

That said, there would be little to no constraints on bringing fully trained and skilled nurses into the country IF we need them (which clearly we do). However I would much prefer to see a plan for the longer term where we decreased theneed for Foreign Nationals as we were training British people to do the work. BTW Nurses never had to go to University in the past, why is it such a requirement now?

Yes a nurse has to have a degree, they are bringing in degree via an apprenticeship to try and recruit more people, however at the same time they are taking away the annual bursary payment to help with your study and living costs.
 
I don't mind reading some of your posts as I respect your determination to follow what you think is right.

But then like your mate you spoil it by what you write in brackets.

Face to face you would not have the nerve. I not here to have personal slanging matches. I put a point across, you do and that should be it.

I will retaliate though like I did with gelson

I didn't mean the text in parenthesis to be insulting; perhaps it was careless of me. I really just meant I doubt he actually cares whether the national debt is £1.8 Trillion or £5 Trillion or 0.1 Trillion, in terms of his political allegiances and voting intentions.

Those emotionally committed to voting Labour can in the main see only bad in anything the Tories do, and vica versa. You can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times someone on here says "good point, I hadn't thought of / realised that". I do try to see the other side, but I know I am guilty of being blinkered too.
 
That said, there is no chance in hell of the Tories privitising the NHS. It would lose them the election in an instant; it is a sacred cow in this country.

It's not a switch to flick. I've no doubt they would be able to slowly privatise many areas of the NHS before anyone really realised what was happening. If we're going to be hiking up our skirts to the States for a trade deal after Brexit how long do we think before we start seeing stories about how this or that could be ran better with American intervention?
 
I have been to labour party rallies (granted not the one in gateshead) and a Labour government would mean I pay more tax.
I know lots of people in the same boat.
I would be astonished if the figure was as low as 1%.

If we want a fair society then it costs money and the nature of the free market means that the more successful get to pay more for that fair society, because the more successful have more money.
If you dont want a fair society then basically you are of the opinion that the rich are rich because they deserve to be and the poor are poor because they deserve to be and when I raised that opinion before people got very upset.

The fact remains, there's a strong correlation between the lower paid and Labour voting intention, is there not. Haven't see too many Corbyn rallies in Ascot.

No-one wants an unfair society. But that does not mean we have to accept only your definition of what "fair" is. How much money you should steal (that's how I view it) off someone in taxation in order to give it to someone else, is a subjective judgement, not an objective one.

Everyone would agree 0% taxation was pretty unfair. Ditto 100%. The question is what is a fair balance inbetween. I get a bit pissed off to be honest with this lazy stereotypical Labour commentary that all Tories are evil, heartless bastards. (I am not saying you are suggesting it, but many on here have done.)

Most of my mates and work colleagues over the years have been Tories and I don't know an evil heartless bastard amongst any of them.

It is not morally superior to want to take more of someone's money off them.
 
It's not a switch to flick. I've no doubt they would be able to slowly privatise many areas of the NHS before anyone really realised what was happening. If we're going to be hiking up our skirts to the States for a trade deal after Brexit how long do we think before we start seeing stories about how this or that could be ran better with American intervention?

lots of services are already privatised. Cleaning of instruments. Cleaning the hospital. Providing the meals. Communications ext. It is being stealth privatised.

Virgin Care Active in primary care and community services. Provides over 230 services to the NHS according to the company website in mid-2015, including GP services, urgent care, musculoskeletal, sexual health, integrated children’s services. The company has targeted some large contracts and since 2010 has been awarded contracts worth over £1 billion by NHS organisations.

Care UK Day care and homes for elderly. GP services, diagnostics, CATS, treatment centres, mental health services (eating disorder service), learning disability services. Receives income per year from the NHS over over £350 million.

The Practice Provider of primary care services and delivers specialist clinical services to GPs, the MoD and PCTs. Network of surgeries. Acquired United Health Primary Care in 2011 from United Health UK – six practices. Recent contract to provide ENT services in London, ophthalmology services in Dorset, cataract services in Croydon.

United Health/Optum Wide range of services for NHS – Health Needs assessment, GP Commissioning, clinical services redesign, performance & contract management, Care solutions, Medicines management. No longer involved with GP practices.



Serco Range of non-clinical services, including prisons, facilities management, IT and payroll services. Exited the clinical market in 2015 after a number of problems.

Nestor Primecare Home care, care homes, mental health services, children’s services, out-of-hours, dentistry and primary care (as Primecare).
Vocare Began as Northern Doctors Urgent Care delivering out-of-hours care, but has since expanded across England covering OOH and NHS 111 services. In 2016 provided services to about 4.5 million people. Vocare is a private limited company.
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HOSPITALS

Circle Private hospitals: Circle Bath, Circle Reading; clinics: Windsor, Nottingham; Pulled out of ten year contract to run Hinchingbrooke hospital early 2015 after only two years. Circle is now targeting large community care contracts and in 2014 won a contract to run musculoskeletal services in Bedfordshire.

General Healthcare (BMI, Netcare) Owned by General Healthcare with over 70 facilities UK-wide. GHG also consists of Care Fertility, a private specialist in fertility treatment, and Netcare, a network of clinics set up in 2002 in the UK by South African company Netcare, which undertakes work under contract to the NHS.

Spire / Classic Second largest private healthcare hospital group in the UK with 37 hospitals. The major part of Spire’s business (61% in 2010) is from the private medical insurance market, but NHS admissions accounted for 25% of its business in 2010, followed by 14% from self-paying customers.
HCA International HCA International is one of the smaller private hospital groups in the UK, with a network of only six hospitals and four outpatient clinics, all in the London area. Partnerships with leading NHS hospital trusts.

Ramsay (plus Capio) Ramsay Health UK has a network of 22 acute hospitals in the UK delivering both private treatment and care under contract to the NHS.

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MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES

Partnerships in Care Largest independent provider of secure mental health facilities across the UK.

Priory Group Provider of acute mental health care, secure and step down services, specialist education, complex care and neuro-rehabilitation services, fostering and care homes.

line_wide.png

DIAGNOSTICS

Alliance (Lodestone) Diagnostics for the NHS and independent sector.

InHealth Group Ltd InHealth provide diagnostics for NHS patients throughout the UK and Ireland.

line_wide.png

IT/Support Services/Commissioning

Capita IT, patient engagement, HR, payroll, estates, commissioning services

CapGemini IT

McKesson IT


Mouchel Commissioning services

BDO Commissioning services

Interserve Support services
 
It's not a switch to flick. I've no doubt they would be able to slowly privatise many areas of the NHS before anyone really realised what was happening. If we're going to be hiking up our skirts to the States for a trade deal after Brexit how long do we think before we start seeing stories about how this or that could be ran better with American intervention?

I don't have any problem with increased privatisation of services so long as it's quality service and free at the point of delivery. What's your problem with that exactly? When you do your knee in and the NHS says you need a ligament op and we're going to send you the Spire hospital up the road where they have great facilities and skills, what on earth is your problem?
 
lots of services are already privatised. Cleaning of instruments. Cleaning the hospital. Providing the meals. Communications ext. It is being stealth privatised.

Virgin Care Active in primary care and community services. Provides over 230 services to the NHS according to the company website in mid-2015, including GP services, urgent care, musculoskeletal, sexual health, integrated children’s services. The company has targeted some large contracts and since 2010 has been awarded contracts worth over £1 billion by NHS organisations.

Care UK Day care and homes for elderly. GP services, diagnostics, CATS, treatment centres, mental health services (eating disorder service), learning disability services. Receives income per year from the NHS over over £350 million.

The Practice Provider of primary care services and delivers specialist clinical services to GPs, the MoD and PCTs. Network of surgeries. Acquired United Health Primary Care in 2011 from United Health UK – six practices. Recent contract to provide ENT services in London, ophthalmology services in Dorset, cataract services in Croydon.

United Health/Optum Wide range of services for NHS – Health Needs assessment, GP Commissioning, clinical services redesign, performance & contract management, Care solutions, Medicines management. No longer involved with GP practices.



Serco Range of non-clinical services, including prisons, facilities management, IT and payroll services. Exited the clinical market in 2015 after a number of problems.

Nestor Primecare Home care, care homes, mental health services, children’s services, out-of-hours, dentistry and primary care (as Primecare).
Vocare Began as Northern Doctors Urgent Care delivering out-of-hours care, but has since expanded across England covering OOH and NHS 111 services. In 2016 provided services to about 4.5 million people. Vocare is a private limited company.
line_wide.png


HOSPITALS

Circle Private hospitals: Circle Bath, Circle Reading; clinics: Windsor, Nottingham; Pulled out of ten year contract to run Hinchingbrooke hospital early 2015 after only two years. Circle is now targeting large community care contracts and in 2014 won a contract to run musculoskeletal services in Bedfordshire.

General Healthcare (BMI, Netcare) Owned by General Healthcare with over 70 facilities UK-wide. GHG also consists of Care Fertility, a private specialist in fertility treatment, and Netcare, a network of clinics set up in 2002 in the UK by South African company Netcare, which undertakes work under contract to the NHS.

Spire / Classic Second largest private healthcare hospital group in the UK with 37 hospitals. The major part of Spire’s business (61% in 2010) is from the private medical insurance market, but NHS admissions accounted for 25% of its business in 2010, followed by 14% from self-paying customers.
HCA International HCA International is one of the smaller private hospital groups in the UK, with a network of only six hospitals and four outpatient clinics, all in the London area. Partnerships with leading NHS hospital trusts.

Ramsay (plus Capio) Ramsay Health UK has a network of 22 acute hospitals in the UK delivering both private treatment and care under contract to the NHS.

line_wide.png

MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES

Partnerships in Care Largest independent provider of secure mental health facilities across the UK.

Priory Group Provider of acute mental health care, secure and step down services, specialist education, complex care and neuro-rehabilitation services, fostering and care homes.

line_wide.png

DIAGNOSTICS

Alliance (Lodestone) Diagnostics for the NHS and independent sector.

InHealth Group Ltd InHealth provide diagnostics for NHS patients throughout the UK and Ireland.

line_wide.png

IT/Support Services/Commissioning

Capita IT, patient engagement, HR, payroll, estates, commissioning services

CapGemini IT

McKesson IT


Mouchel Commissioning services

BDO Commissioning services

Interserve Support services


Not enough. It's only about 6 or 7% of NHS spending, and if we can save more money, by doing more of it, then great.
 
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