General Election June 8th

[kevin horlocks wand]

I've seen this being posed around a lot by my Labour voting 'friends' under the sentiment that 'Tory Voters are stupid'.



Labour voters need to learn that calling others stupid as a method to garner their support or influence their voting decision tends to make people take the opposing view. It's why the left is struggling, why Labour is haemorhagging support from the undecideds and why their viewpoint lost the public support in the EU referendum.

I'm fed up with hearing them tell us why they think the Tories are bad, I want to know why they think the Labour party will be the better choice without mentioning the NHS. They seem to think it's Labour's raison d'etre. How will Labour make Brexit a success that delivers on what the leave voters wanted? How will Labour appeal to the centre right? Trident, armed forces spending, grammar schools, how will Labour address these elements of debate that many people in this country support?

So far nothing has been said. It's just "Oh well those voters who supports those incentives are just evil people, so we don't care for their support". I'm just told to fear the Conservatives because, and here's the key reason, they think they are bad. Labour introduced the Minimum Wage that saw workers being exploited and my wages go down. Conservatives introduced a Living Wage that saw my wages go up. I've been a Labour voter for years and I can't bring myself to vote for Labour given the direction they are going, not because I think Corbyn is out of his depth. Nice guy, but seemingly naive about the world.

Labour; a party created for giving working people a say in Parliament, now concentrates more on "social" issues rather than workers rights (some people want zero hours contracts guys! It helps give us the flexibility to study for university, do other jobs, care for others at home, or pursue other interests without being tied by contractual obligations of "working the minimum contracted hours stated" and not be at risk of losing our current employment), unemployment benefits not being "enough" for people when benefits aren't supposed to be for that purpose, and if you don't agree with them, you're stupid, a basket of deplorable attitudes, 'turkey's voting for Christmas'. Labour used to be the voice of equality now it seeks to divide the country into right think and wrong think people.

take a bow.....exactly.

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

Apparently if we had the temerity to leave the European Union and re-establish democracy in our country, then the very next day our economy would implode.

Surprise surprise the British establishment, the IMF, the POTUS and the EU were all 'overstating things' (to say the least).

There will probably (but not definitely) be a small short lived period of economic pain. A price worth paying for gaining control of the people we elect to parliament.

The only thing i agree with there is that there will be economic pain - all reasonable and informed views point to it being significant and longstanding. What we get in exchange is a solution to a completely misrepresented problem not to mention and long list of very clear and un-ambiguous problems such as the Irish border and Gibraltar border.

 

[GortonBlue62]

The only thing i agree with there is that there will be economic pain - all reasonable and informed views point to it being significant and longstanding. What we get in exchange is a solution to a completely misrepresented problem not to mention and long list of very clear and un-ambiguous problems such as the Irish border and Gibraltar border.

Most of the reasonable and informed views points I'm hearing point to it being short term pain which will look like a blip a decade from now.

I guess we have different sources. One of the things that's influenced me recently is Mervyn King's analysis of the situation. He has retired now, his reputation is intact and assured, so has no one to answer to and he is firmly in the 'blip' camp. Many other economists share that view, even remainers.

The Irish border problem will resolve itself quite easily. Gibraltar will continue to be a bone of contention whether we are in or out of the EU.

 

[Len Rum]

Apparently if we had the temerity to leave the European Union and re-establish democracy in our country, then the very next day our economy would implode.

Surprise surprise the British establishment, the IMF, the POTUS and the EU were all 'overstating things' (to say the least).

There will probably (but not definitely) be a small short lived period of economic pain. A price worth paying for gaining control of the people we elect to parliament.

"There will probably ( but not definitely) be a small short lived period of economic pain".
Could you possibly back that up with any facts/data?

 

[BlueHammer85]

I'm fed up with hearing them tell us why they think the Tories are bad, I want to know why they think the Labour party will be the better choice without mentioning the NHS. They seem to think it's Labour's raison d'etre. How will Labour make Brexit a success that delivers on what the leave voters wanted? How will Labour appeal to the centre right? Trident, armed forces spending, grammar schools, how will Labour address these elements of debate that many people in this country support?

- Labour will stand up for everyone, not just a privileged few
- Labour will raise the minimum wage to more than £8 by October 2019 and promote the living wage.
- Labour will ban exploitative zero-hours contracts so that anyone working regular hours for more than 12 weeks can get a regular contract
- Labour won't give tax breaks to millionaires, They will cut taxes for millions of people on low and middle incomes instead.
- Labour will clamp down on tax avoidance and ban 'non-dom' status (up the hammers!)
- Labour will cut the deficit every year and balance the books, sensibly and fairly, without the extreme spending cuts the Tories are planning to make.
- Labour will scrap the Bedroom Tax
- Labour will extend free childcare from 15 to 25 hours a week for working parents of three- and four-year-olds
- Labour will control immigration with fair rules and make it illegal for employers to undercut wages by exploiting workers.
- Labour will train and recruit 20,000 more nurses and 8,000 more doctors by 2020, paid for by tackling tax avoidance, a levy on tobacco companies, and a tax on the most expensive properties worth over £2 million.
- Labour will guarantee a GP appointment within 48 hours - and on the same day for those who need it.
- Labour will radically improve mental health provision, especially for young people, by prioritising investment in under-18s and making sure teachers are trained to spot problems early
- Labour will cut tuition fees from £9,000 to £6,000 (which will help students and is also good for our economy).
- Labour will freeze energy bills until 2017 so they can fall but not rise, and give the regulator the power to cut bills when wholesale prices fall.
- Labour are determined to tackle climate change and create a million green jobs


Brexit
- Labour backs Brexit
- Labour would guarantee rights for EU nationals who live in the UK
- Labour would give Parliament a say on the final deal
- Labour would prioritise trade with the EU and look at staying in the customs union
- Labour would ditch the Great Repeal Bill and emphasise the continuation of EU rights post-Brexit

 

[GortonBlue62]

"There will probably ( but not definitely) be a small short lived period of economic pain".
Could you possibly back that up with any facts/data?

Certainly not. Life's too short.

Get yourself a copy of the Times and the Telegraph today. Tomorrow get the Economist and the Spectator. You could also get yourself a copy of the Eurosceptics handbook from the Civitas web site. It's a question of who you trust (and for many people who will back up your prejudices).

Time will tell. One result already in though (which may be an indicator of what's to come) the meltdown of the UK economy predicted in the aftermath of a vote for Brexit did not materialize - quite the opposite in fact. Let's see what happens. You an probably guess which outcome my money's on.

 

[Blue Whale]

I have a conscience and a heart and a brain in my head and hope in my heart and I'm voting Conservative.

Sorry, it's simply not possible to have all these things at the same time. The brain bit will tell you why.

 

[CityStu]

- Labour will stand up for everyone, not just a privileged few
- Labour will raise the minimum wage to more than £8 by October 2019 and promote the living wage.
- Labour will ban exploitative zero-hours contracts so that anyone working regular hours for more than 12 weeks can get a regular contract
- Labour won't give tax breaks to millionaires, They will cut taxes for millions of people on low and middle incomes instead.
- Labour will clamp down on tax avoidance and ban 'non-dom' status (up the hammers!)
- Labour will cut the deficit every year and balance the books, sensibly and fairly, without the extreme spending cuts the Tories are planning to make.
- Labour will scrap the Bedroom Tax
- Labour will extend free childcare from 15 to 25 hours a week for working parents of three- and four-year-olds
- Labour will control immigration with fair rules and make it illegal for employers to undercut wages by exploiting workers.
- Labour will train and recruit 20,000 more nurses and 8,000 more doctors by 2020, paid for by tackling tax avoidance, a levy on tobacco companies, and a tax on the most expensive properties worth over £2 million.
- Labour will guarantee a GP appointment within 48 hours - and on the same day for those who need it.
- Labour will radically improve mental health provision, especially for young people, by prioritising investment in under-18s and making sure teachers are trained to spot problems early
- Labour will cut tuition fees from £9,000 to £6,000 (which will help students and is also good for our economy).
- Labour will freeze energy bills until 2017 so they can fall but not rise, and give the regulator the power to cut bills when wholesale prices fall.
- Labour are determined to tackle climate change and create a million green jobs


Brexit
- Labour backs Brexit
- Labour would guarantee rights for EU nationals who live in the UK
- Labour would give Parliament a say on the final deal
- Labour would prioritise trade with the EU and look at staying in the customs union
- Labour would ditch the Great Repeal Bill and emphasise the continuation of EU rights post-Brexit

How many money trees will they be planting?

 

[Len Rum]

Certainly not. Life's too short.

Get yourself a copy of the Times and the Telegraph today. Tomorrow get the Economist and the Spectator. You could also get yourself a copy of the Eurosceptics handbook from the Civitas web site. It's a question of who you trust (and for many people who will back up your prejudices).

Time will tell. One result already in though (which may be an indicator of what's to come) the meltdown of the UK economy predicted in the aftermath of a vote for Brexit did not materialize - quite the opposite in fact. Let's see what happens. You an probably guess which outcome my money's on.

Only wanted a few lines mate.
Go on ,have a go.
If you haven't got a clue don't be afraid to say so.

 

[M18CTID]

- Labour will stand up for everyone, not just a privileged few
- Labour will raise the minimum wage to more than £8 by October 2019 and promote the living wage.
- Labour will ban exploitative zero-hours contracts so that anyone working regular hours for more than 12 weeks can get a regular contract
- Labour won't give tax breaks to millionaires, They will cut taxes for millions of people on low and middle incomes instead.
- Labour will clamp down on tax avoidance and ban 'non-dom' status (up the hammers!)
- Labour will cut the deficit every year and balance the books, sensibly and fairly, without the extreme spending cuts the Tories are planning to make.
- Labour will scrap the Bedroom Tax
- Labour will extend free childcare from 15 to 25 hours a week for working parents of three- and four-year-olds
- Labour will control immigration with fair rules and make it illegal for employers to undercut wages by exploiting workers.
- Labour will train and recruit 20,000 more nurses and 8,000 more doctors by 2020, paid for by tackling tax avoidance, a levy on tobacco companies, and a tax on the most expensive properties worth over £2 million.
- Labour will guarantee a GP appointment within 48 hours - and on the same day for those who need it.
- Labour will radically improve mental health provision, especially for young people, by prioritising investment in under-18s and making sure teachers are trained to spot problems early
- Labour will cut tuition fees from £9,000 to £6,000 (which will help students and is also good for our economy).
- Labour will freeze energy bills until 2017 so they can fall but not rise, and give the regulator the power to cut bills when wholesale prices fall.
- Labour are determined to tackle climate change and create a million green jobs


Brexit
- Labour backs Brexit
- Labour would guarantee rights for EU nationals who live in the UK
- Labour would give Parliament a say on the final deal
- Labour would prioritise trade with the EU and look at staying in the customs union
- Labour would ditch the Great Repeal Bill and emphasise the continuation of EU rights post-Brexit

Most of that sounds fantastic on paper but what's the reality of it all happening if they get in? The cynic in me thinks that Labour can promise all those things as they know they've got next to no chance of winning the election - in other words, if things were a lot closer then they wouldn't be promising half those things. It reminds me of the debate in the run up to the 1992 election between Norman Lamont (Con), John Smith (Lab), and Alan Beith (Lib Dem) about the economy. Labour had a decent chance of winning the election that year and Smith was saying a lot of sensible stuff, but Beith (who's a nice bloke by the way) was coming out with all kinds of wild pledges. John Smith's response was a classic along the lines of: "With all due respect to Alan Beith, I've got every chance of being part of the next government and he's got no chance so he can promise whatever he wants without any comeback"

 

[GortonBlue62]

Only wanted a few lines mate.
Go on ,have a go.
If you haven't got a clue don't be afraid to say so.

I'm not clueless I just disagree with you. Not surprised you can't you tell the difference.

 

[Metal Biker]

-Labour will stand up for everyone, not just a privileged few
Every party says this.

- Labour will raise the minimum wage to more than £8 by October 2019 and promote the living wage.
How? I'm all for claiming that we'll all get an additional £100,000 a year but unless you explain how it's nothing more than empty promises. Tax the rich? What makes people think the rich would stay in the country and not move, taking their cash with them? Taxing corporations more? We want to keep jobs in the country, not deter businesses from setting up here. There needs to be a balance yet so far Labour's method seems to be "oh we'll just get rich people to pay for it all. They'll be fine with it." I'm not so convinced.

- Labour will ban exploitative zero-hours contracts so that anyone working regular hours for more than 12 weeks can get a regular contract
Some people WANT zero hours contracts. It provides them with flexibility to do other things whilst still being employed. It gives workers the choice without fear of dismissal. Outright banning them proves once more that Labour is completely out of touch with lower paid workers, their needs and requirments in these modern times.

- Labour won't give tax breaks to millionaires, They will cut taxes for millions of people on low and middle incomes instead.
Although this sounds good, on principle it's grossly unfair. Rich people should not be penalised for their successes. Ethically and morally I couldn't agree to it. Wokr harder, earn more, get taxed more. Not really an inviting prospect, but i'm not rich so how would I know what they'd be willing to pay. Can we also tax celebrities more as well?

- Labour will clamp down on tax avoidance and ban 'non-dom' status (up the hammers!)
No issues here.

- Labour will cut the deficit every year and balance the books, sensibly and fairly, without the extreme spending cuts the Tories are planning to make.
How?

- Labour will scrap the Bedroom Tax
Fair enough

- Labour will extend free childcare from 15 to 25 hours a week for working parents of three- and four-year-olds
Paid for how?

- Labour will control immigration with fair rules and make it illegal for employers to undercut wages by exploiting workers.
How?

- Labour will train and recruit 20,000 more nurses and 8,000 more doctors by 2020, paid for by tackling tax avoidance, a levy on tobacco companies, and a tax on the most expensive properties worth over £2 million.
Everything seems to be being paid for by tax avoidance, then. I certainly hope they get this unpaid tax becuase if they can't all their promises fall apart.

- Labour will guarantee a GP appointment within 48 hours - and on the same day for those who need it.
HA, sure they will. How are they going to manage it, though? Again, no explanations given by them, just pie-in-the-sky, rainbows and happy thoughts.

- Labour will radically improve mental health provision, especially for young people, by prioritising investment in under-18s and making sure teachers are trained to spot problems early
Not relevant to me personally. But each to their own.

- Labour will cut tuition fees from £9,000 to £6,000 (which will help students and is also good for our economy).
And the Universities agree to this? Okay.

- Labour will freeze energy bills until 2017 so they can fall but not rise, and give the regulator the power to cut bills when wholesale prices fall.
So.....8 months?

- Labour are determined to tackle climate change and create a million green jobs
Ooh like investing in our nuclear energy industry? That'd get my vote. Oh, no they mean bird killing wind farms don't they.


Brexit
- Labour backs Brexit
No it doesn't, it only respects the decision because Labour voters gave them a bloody nose having disagreed with their public stance and were labelled amongst the racists, xenophobes and little Englanders for doing so by the party member themselves. The Blairites in the party are still actively seeking ways to prevent us from leaving at all.

- Labour would guarantee rights for EU nationals who live in the UK
And UK nationals who live in the EU? Nope, nothing. How is this meant to appeal to me when it doesn't apply to me?

- Labour would give Parliament a say on the final deal
What deal? A deal on leaving the EU? Re-negotiations with trading with the EU are a seperate discussion. What are they doing to ensure we are out of the EU politically and fully, like what we voted for?

- Labour would prioritise trade with the EU and look at staying in the customs union
Why? We shoukld priotise every nation around the world that we can now trade with, not focus on one particular bloc which shuns everyone that's not a part of it.

- Labour would ditch the Great Repeal Bill and emphasise the continuation of EU rights post-Brexit
Labour wants to ditch our withdrawal from the EU? I want nothing to do with it, nothing. You don't need to be a member or have any ties in order to trade with it. I do not want to see us prioritise our 'relationship' with the EU, I would rather we made new ties with the rest of the world.

So it's quite obvious there are now TWO Labours within the Labour Party; the Pro EU, anti-Brexit Blairites like Mandelson, Abbott, Lammy, Khan et al and the Corbynites who advocate a more Marxist, Socialist aspect to the future of Britain. Neither appeal to me, as I'm more traditional, democratic working Labour and feel ignored by the party. They don't address my concerns anymore, they want to save the world. Honourable, idealistic, won't change my life one iota. Some may choose to vote for another party, some may refrain from voting altogether. In any case, it's votes lost for Labour, and it proves once again none of the issues mentioned resonate directly with the working class racist little Englanders, sorry, I went all Abbotty, I mean "Labour voters" of the UK.

I dislike the Blairites view of what Labour should be fighting for and I disagree with the Corbyn socialism view of what Labour should be fighting for and I don't feel i'm alone in this, hence why a lot of us feel ignored and have abandoned the party, especially when you consider their conflicting, sometimes hypocritical stance, surrounding the UK leaving the EU. To me, Labour is now the party of the Middle Class that looks down their noses at the Working Classes who they regard as scum, until it suits their purpose to look caring and altruistic in the wider public view. This is a view of the party i've had for a while and nothing they have done recently has made me change my perception of them. Sorry, but it's how I feel as do many (now) ex-Labour members of my own family.

 

[GortonBlue62]

Sorry, it's simply not possible to have all these things at the same time. The brain bit will tell you why.

If you're looking for a correlation between intelligence and political allegiance you'll be disappointed to discover that conservatives win out every time.

It's possible to have a heart but still vote conservative. The left don't have a monopoly on so called 'progressive' policies. We're all aiming for a fairer more prosperous society. Most of us just don't think that failed policies that led us to the winter of discontent 40 years ago are the way forward.

If you want to polish your halo in public and demonstrate what a marvellous human being you re vote Labour.

If your an adult who lives in the real world and values results vote Conservative.

 

[Len Rum]

I'm not clueless I just disagree with you. Not surprised you can't you tell the difference.

But you made such a bold and optimistic statement and yet seem reluctant to back it up.
You see a couple of your remain colleagues were much more pessimistic than you, Metal Biker and mcfc were forecasting 17 and 20 years respectively of economic hardship.
So I was hoping you had some unique insight, information,analysis, whatever to back up you assertion.
Obviously not.

 

[GortonBlue62]

But you made such a bold and optimistic statement and yet seem reluctant to back it up.
You see a couple of your remain colleagues were much more pessimistic than you, Metal Biker and mcfc were forecasting 17 and 20 years respectively of economic hardship.
So I was hoping you had some unique insight, information,analysis, whatever to back up you assertion.
Obviously not.

I'm not reluctant to back it up, I'm reluctant to engage in the detail with you (I'm at work). As I said life's too short.

Try these ...

http://civitas.org.uk/publications/its-quite-ok-to-walk-away/

http://civitas.org.uk/publications/mitigating-the-impact-of-tariffs-on-uk-eu-trade/

... if you want a sense of where I'm coming from.

"You see a couple of your remain colleagues"??? Are we at cross purposes? I voted out not in.

I have no 'unique insight'. I have an opinion based on a genuine curiosity and not on narrow party political views or historic ties.

 

[cibaman]

If Labour were to say that they would tackle tax avoidance and spend the extra tax receipts, once they've materialised, on X.Y & Z, they might be more credible.

 

[inbetween]

- Labour will stand up for everyone, not just a privileged few
- Labour will raise the minimum wage to more than £8 by October 2019 and promote the living wage.
- Labour will ban exploitative zero-hours contracts so that anyone working regular hours for more than 12 weeks can get a regular contract
- Labour won't give tax breaks to millionaires, They will cut taxes for millions of people on low and middle incomes instead.
- Labour will clamp down on tax avoidance and ban 'non-dom' status (up the hammers!)
- Labour will cut the deficit every year and balance the books, sensibly and fairly, without the extreme spending cuts the Tories are planning to make.
- Labour will scrap the Bedroom Tax
- Labour will extend free childcare from 15 to 25 hours a week for working parents of three- and four-year-olds
- Labour will control immigration with fair rules and make it illegal for employers to undercut wages by exploiting workers.
- Labour will train and recruit 20,000 more nurses and 8,000 more doctors by 2020, paid for by tackling tax avoidance, a levy on tobacco companies, and a tax on the most expensive properties worth over £2 million.
- Labour will guarantee a GP appointment within 48 hours - and on the same day for those who need it.
- Labour will radically improve mental health provision, especially for young people, by prioritising investment in under-18s and making sure teachers are trained to spot problems early
- Labour will cut tuition fees from £9,000 to £6,000 (which will help students and is also good for our economy).
- Labour will freeze energy bills until 2017 so they can fall but not rise, and give the regulator the power to cut bills when wholesale prices fall.
- Labour are determined to tackle climate change and create a million green jobs

1) The minimum wage is £7.50 now, that 50p is going to make all the difference!
2) There is zero evidence that ALL zero hour contracts are exploitative and they also represent a minority (1 in 50) of the workforce.
3) Labour have yet to mention any tax cuts for middle earners, the lowest paid actually already pay zero tax....
4) They will clamp down on tax-avoiders, the where and how still remains to be seen..
5) Again they will cut the deficit but the evidence that they can do this whilst borrowing £500bn remains to be seen.
6) Cut the bedroom tax, what will replace this tax to ensure it is a funded cut?
7) Another 10hrs of childcare... Big deal.
8) It is already illegal to undercut wages at least below the minimum wage and we have discrimination laws already that stop this so how will it be better enforced?
9) Great news on more doctors and nurses, I look forward to the extensive review Labour have done into the tax affairs of the thousands of dodgy companies which outlines how this is to be funded... Also a tax on homes worth £2M+... What tax and on what, a standing charge tax or?
10) 48hr GP guarantee, I look forward to seeing how this will be delivered, presumably by magicing up thousands more GP surgeries etc or by slashing the numbers of people using the system.
11) I agree on mental health investment, an area that definitely needs more money.
12) Why shouldn't students pay towards their education, what difference will £6000 instead of £9000 make beyond reducing the funding available to universities. Students do not repay this debt until they earn enough money to.
13) The tories have already broadly made this commitment so it is pretty irrelevant.
14) They will tackle climate change and create a million green jobs, the where and how will be interesting.

It all sounds very flowery and great but barely believable that it could ever be put into practice.

 

[Len Rum]

I'm not reluctant to back it up, I'm reluctant to engage in the detail with you (I'm at work). As I said life's too short.

Try these ...

http://civitas.org.uk/publications/its-quite-ok-to-walk-away/

http://civitas.org.uk/publications/mitigating-the-impact-of-tariffs-on-uk-eu-trade/

... if you want a sense of where I'm coming from.

"You see a couple of your remain colleagues"??? Are we at cross purposes? I voted out not in.

I have no 'unique insight'. I have an opinion based on a genuine curiosity and not on narrow party political views or historic ties.

Thank you for attaching copies of references to the civitas report.
It is of course 178 pages long.
Have you read it?
Couple of quick points, the main thrust of the report is that countries trading with the EU on WTO terms only have done much better than the UK trading with the EU.
However no countries trade with the EU on WTO terms only, they all have lots of multilateral and/or bilateral agreements with the EU to ensure compliance with standards,regulations,directives,customs procedures etc etc. Without these agreements trading only on WTO terms would be very difficult and costly if not impossible.
More generally the paper's conclusions are based on the relatively poor performance of the U.K. Trade with EU since we joined in 1972. Even if you accept these conclusions then that's still not to say that turning away from one model of trading on which you have become used to over the past forty five years and moving to new trading arrangements is going to be painless.
PS apologies to mcfc and MetalBiker for referring to them as Remainers ( rather soft Brexiters).

 

[GortonBlue62]

Thank you for attaching copies of references to the civitas report.
It is of course 178 pages long.
Have you read it?
Couple of quick points, the main thrust of the report is that countries trading with the EU on WTO terms only have done much better than the UK trading with the EU.
However no countries trade with the EU on WTO terms only, they all have lots of multilateral and/or bilateral agreements with the EU to ensure compliance with standards,regulations,directives,customs procedures etc etc. Without these agreements trading only on WTO terms would be very difficult and costly if not impossible.
More generally the paper's conclusions are based on the relatively poor performance of the U.K. Trade with EU since we joined in 1972. Even if you accept these conclusions then that's still not to say that turning away from one model of trading on which you have become used to over the past forty five years and moving to new trading arrangements is going to be painless.
PS apologies to mcfc and MetalBiker for referring to them as Remainers ( rather soft Brexiters).

I have read both books. And I'm still not biting. Let's just wait and see.

 

[Blue Whale]

If you're looking for a correlation between intelligence and political allegiance you'll be disappointed to discover that conservatives win out every time.

It's possible to have a heart but still vote conservative. The left don't have a monopoly on so called 'progressive' policies. We're all aiming for a fairer more prosperous society. Most of us just don't think that failed policies that led us to the winter of discontent 40 years ago are the way forward.

If you want to polish your halo in public and demonstrate what a marvellous human being you re vote Labour.

If your an adult who lives in the real world and values results vote Conservative.

To vote for the Tories after all those cuts affecting the poorest, disabled and most vulnerable in our society doesn't suggest you have much of a heart now does it? And in terms of a brain. Folk on here keep repeating how the Tories are the best candidates to bring about stability and see us through the mess of Brexit. It was the Tories whom created the instability by calling for a referendum in the first place. They did that based on the instability of their own party anti -EU contingent. They've also nearly tripled the national debt meaning the austerity cuts were nothing but malicious. Now tell me again how you can have a heart and vote Tory and a brain given it was they whom caused the Brexshit mess we are now in - that and tripling the national debt. It's complete folly to vote Tory no matter how you look at it. That's not just my opinion, it's fact!