General Election June 8th

[Damocles]

I still fancy my £10 bet on a hung parliament is looking good.

Think this election is a major tactical mistake and will bite May on the arse


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Wish I had your confidence mate

 

[Bill]

we live in a social media age where hate is all the rage, i think Corbyn comes across as a top bloke in interviews etc

he's got no sense of reality but I like him, though wrong he believes in his standpoint. I like him.

 

[bboy]

The tories have to do as well as today just to stand still.

Can you show me your working on that because it sounds prettttttttty out there

Do you seriously believe staunch Labour voters are going to vote for May. Third generation Labourites voting tory.

Yes. Not all of them, but some. I heard one today say that Corbyn 'had absolutely nothing about him, was weak' (or words to those effects) and "would get wiped out in any EU negotiations" - so he thought May was the best option for the country this time.

Dad was a docker. Wife is pro-Corbyn. Make of it what you will.

And they have other options than voting May. Like just not turning out.

Or voting independant (I expect the independants to do much better than usual, but it won't translate into seats).

I mean, this election is as close to a one issue election as you can get. The EU negotiations.

And I just don't have a clue what Labour's position is. Even if I did, how do I trust a manifesto when the party is in pieces?

They have enough genuinely safe seats to not get wiped out. That's your staunch supporters, packaged up neatly, lined up against no serious opposition. They can't chose to place their vote in the marginals.

I reckon they end up with between 180 to 210. It could be worse than that. I'd place a sizable bet that it won't be better.

The conservatives could easily end up with 380 (not putting money on that figure tho)

 

[Vic]

I reckon this will be the biggest landslide ever, the Tories are not great, but there are many former Labour voters myself included who will indeed reluctantly putting a cross next to the Conservatives due to the utterly feeble, un electable bunch of freaks and cretins that make up any alternative. Truly a dismal state of affairs.

You're not voting for a bunch of anything. You're voting for one person. Chances are your Labour candidate thinks his or her party has no chance of forming a government. If he or she isn't a cretin or freak send them to parliament to keep a proper opposition. And there are plenty of Tory freak and cretin MPs there already without adding to them.

 

[Vic]

I'll give you a few clues;-
He is a CND supporter who favours the UK adopting unilateral disarmament, try selling that to a British electorate.

Just on that one, it's as close as the EU referendum.
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&s...ggcMAA&usg=AFQjCNH7Bi1jnePYSwbLBNHlBpVHA6qSfg

 

[Vic]

Theres a few people at my work who have said "I'm going to vote Tory because i think they'll win". Thats theirs sole reason for voting Conservative.
Democaracy doesnt work in my opinion, too many idiots who shouldnt be allowed a vote! There should be a test where only the top 40% are allowed a vote

My favourite was the bloke (I think the 2001 election) who said Labour were doing fine so he didn't need to bother voting.

 

[SWP's back]

Watching the BBC coverage where they are talking about the GE and why people will vote and what they will vote for. The obscene way that this bunch think that voters in their droves read manifestos back to back and make considered decisions based on them is false. Whilst a great many voters do genuinely pick apart manifestos it's not standard surely? Don't most voters just base their vote on soundbytes and traditional voting practices?
The biggest Elephant in the room is that most of the talk encompasses trade and economics it ignores the swathe of voters who voted purely for nationalistic pro British reasons, the underclass (I hate that term but it's used to describe the disenfranchised) have nothing to lose because in reality they don't seem to gain even when the economy is booming.

Then there's people like nico1 that votes Labour and only them and is avowed to never change whatever happens in the world or the party itself.

So for every voter that takes an interest, there are half a dozen idiots as well.

 

[SWP's back]

Theres a few people at my work who have said "I'm going to vote Tory because i think they'll win".

That didn't happen did it.

 

[Vic]

What? No gloryhunters?

 

[urban genie]

Then there's people like nico1 that votes Labour and only them and is avowed to never change whatever happens in the world or the party itself.

So for every voter that takes an interest, there are half a dozen idiots as well.

You could say that for all parties at one point, but I think it has changed in the last 15 -20 years, media focus has changed to less about policy and manifesto's and more about single subjects or personalities, and our democracy is worse off for it.

Bit of a waffle next and probably added more than necessary but;

I voted labour and was a member from 18 in first time 97 not bacause of the leader, but because I was brought up labour and socialist, and again in 2001, the next 2 elections I voted green as labour policy on some things and the surge in the progress sub group influence in the party left a sour taste, being in gorton I knew my vote wouldn't change the MP but I still wished to put my choice across.
Because I voted green I left the party just before and only rejoined 2 years ago after the 2015 loss and before corbyn became leader (full remembership not the 3 quid nonsense).

What I notice though after leaving is that a lot of political events I attended were all about 1 issue that was being focused on by the media or personalities, not actual broad ranging ideas of bettering the nation, I will vote labour again in June, but I ain't voting for corbyn I am voting for the present labour policies over the blurred shadowy, we may tell you policies of the tories.

Honestly I would prefer a different labour leader, but if another balls, cooper, kendall, D milliband type was leader I would quit again and probably opt for the greens, who if labour supporters who get dissalusioned with labour are the natural alternative, unfortunately though their core issues are not the headlime grabbers and so maginalised for sensationalism of ukip the last 5 years as our countries obsession with the EU has been.

I think a lot of people don't automatically stick with the party they started with, but the one that focuses on the popular subject of the day and percieved personalities and when the countries politics is lead by one subject or one person then we all suffer.

The last paragraph is not a slight on people though, I just think modern britain some people have less time or too many distractions to properly delve into the parties full manifestos and policies, so core focussed issues in media can lead some opinions, others will be very knowledgable and make very informed choices, while other will automatically vote as per always.

 

[SWP's back]

You could say that for all parties at one point, but I think it has changed in the last 15 -20 years, media focus has changed to less about policy and manifesto's and more about single subjects or personalities, and our democracy is worse off for it.

Bit of a waffle next and probably added more than necessary but;

I voted labour and was a member from 18 in first time 97 not bacause of the leader, but because I was brought up labour and socialist, and again in 2001, the next 2 elections I voted green as labour policy on some things and the surge in the progress sub group influence in the party left a sour taste, being in gorton I knew my vote wouldn't change the MP but I still wished to put my choice across.
Because I voted green I left the party just before and only rejoined 2 years ago after the 2015 loss and before corbyn became leader (full remembership not the 3 quid nonsense).

What I notice though after leaving is that a lot of political events I attended were all about 1 issue that was being focused on by the media or personalities, not actual broad ranging ideas of bettering the nation, I will vote labour again in June, but I ain't voting for corbyn I am voting for the present labour policies over the blurred shadowy, we may tell you policies of the tories.

Honestly I would prefer a different labour leader, but if another balls, cooper, kendall, D milliband type was leader I would quit again and probably opt for the greens, who if labour supporters who get dissalusioned with labour are the natural alternative, unfortunately though their core issues are not the headlime grabbers and so maginalised for sensationalism of ukip the last 5 years as our countries obsession with the EU has been.

When the countries politics is lead by one subject or one person then we all suffer.

Sort of a catch 22 for you really then in terms of Labour/Greens.

 

[SWP's back]

What? No gloryhunters?

If anyone votes for a party because they simply think they will win then it's a huge argument against universal sufferage.

 

[urban genie]

Sort of a catch 22 for you really then in terms of Labour/Greens.

yeah, greens are probably more akin to what a modern socialist party should be, but will by the looks of things never be given air time or a platform to grow, which is strange as in many coutries enviromentalist based parties have been promoted and grown.

If labour is in it's death throws then greens are a sensible option, but I fear most will stick with labour or more centrist people go lib dem/tory, we are practically in a perpetual one party state country .

I could never vote lib dem or tory btw

 

[SWP's back]

yeah, greens are probably more akin to what a modern socialist party should be, but will by the looks of things never be given air time or a platform to grow, which is strange as in many coutries enviromentalist based parties have been promoted and grown.

If labour is in it's death throws then greens are a sensible option, but I fear most will stick with labour or more centrist people go lib dem/tory, we are practically in a perpetual one party state country .

I could never vote lib dem or tory btw

Why never Lib Dem out of interest?

 

[jazzy]

I can't/won't vote labour under Corbyns leadership with his collective of Fuckwits .

 

[urban genie]

Why never Lib Dem out of interest?

Deapite them in some ideas having left leaning policies (some more than new labour had), and the SDP alliance was a mixture of left, right and centre politics so a broad spectrum, the orange book idealism and the recent adoption of it by it's leadership(though farron seemed more SDP than Whig when elected) and party is not in line with my beliefs.

 

[Hart of the Matter]

What new Labour grasped and current Labour ignore is that wealth generation is at the heart of social justice. Labour and Corbyn in particular reject this mantra because of none economic issues such as the Iraq disgrace. What new labour did not do was eradicate the tendency for factionalism in the party. The hard/fascistic tendencies within militant/momentum were buried but not eradicated. Labour is now erelevent. Even the name seems old. The vocabulary of politics is currently set by the Conservatives and Labour respond rather than set agendas. A real opposition would/should have this government on the ropes. Only 37% of population actively voted for Brexit yet the opposition cannot marshal an effective response. Health and Education are struggling as is social care. Where the fck is Corbyn???
I will spoil my ballot paper and not vote for the first time in 40 years. Hopefully Corbyn will be gone on 9th June. Hopefully the middle ground will be reshaped and Labour obliterated. 5 years to create an effective new party with social justice priorities but focussed on wealth creation to that end. Blair cannot make a comeback (he is a crook). But someone of his charisma and focus needs to step forward. Governments of any ilk are dangerous without effective opposition.

 

[urban genie]

What new Labour grasped and current Labour ignore is that wealth generation is at the heart of social justice. Labour and Corbyn in particular reject this mantra because of none economic issues such as the Iraq disgrace. What new labour did not do was eradicate the tendency for factionalism in the party. The hard/fascistic tendencies within militant/momentum were buried but not eradicated. Labour is now erelevent. Even the name seems old. The vocabulary of politics is currently set by the Conservatives and Labour respond rather than set agendas. A real opposition would/should have this government on the ropes. Only 37% of population actively voted for Brexit yet the opposition cannot marshal an effective response. Health and Education are struggling as is social care. Where the fck is Corbyn???
I will spoil my ballot paper and not vote for the first time in 40 years. Hopefully Corbyn will be gone on 9th June. Hopefully the middle ground will be reshaped and Labour obliterated. 5 years to create an effective new party with social justice priorities but focussed on wealth creation to that end. Blair cannot make a comeback (he is a crook). But someone of his charisma and focus needs to step forward. Governments of any ilk are dangerous without effective opposition.

But most wealth within a society is created by the worker and working class, something that new labours policies of the neo liberal idea that sweetening people of vast wealth and big business will create wealth, ignored.
Making the vast majority of the country less well off won't improve social justice and the parts of the country that have been left impoverished are a result of the fixation with what is only a recent economic policy of moden post-fordism pushed by thatcher which has shaped us and left us in a 2 teir country which we will probably never come back from.

Watching the tories push more rightwards, it's easy to think that returning to a progress type labour could oust them eventually, but then we have still a centrist, big business enthralled government with some socially consious attitudes, the poorest and workers will still be left behind.

Those that that would like a more social just egaletarian society are pretty much out of options.

 

[Metal Biker]

Only 37% of population actively voted for Brexit yet the opposition cannot marshal an effective response.

That's because the opposition to Brexit is only around 34% of the (voting) population. There's a hardcore support and a hardcore opposition and everyone else (the majority) is 'meh' about it, but signs are there that the majority now just wants us to get on with it and stop the bickering.

 

[smudgedj]